Vegan DS Diet?

[chicarita]

Hey everyone!

I'm STILL pre-op (seems like this is taking FOREVER!), but I'm trying to do somewhat of a post-op diet. Not as high in fat but definitely high protein, lower carb.

My question is this - every year in January we do a "Daniel Fast" for 3 weeks. We start next week. This is basically a full vegan diet - no yeast, no dairy, no meat, no sweeteners, no processed food, etc.

I started to think, how will I do this after my surgery? I know I can have soy and tofu, etc, but how do you get protein in from just veggies? Also, is there a protein shake that is vegan in nature (no whey or animal sources)?

Thanks all!

[charlee]

I don't honestly think you can get all the protein you need via a vegan diet. Lacto-ovo vegetarians are pushing it. You'll need 80-120 grams of protein every day and that's a lot of tofu.

Are you only doing it for 3 weeks per year or are you always vegan? Sorry, don't know the Daniel Fast.

[chicarita]

No, it's only 3 weeks a year. Do you think that doing it for that short of time will have a seriously negative impact?

[Joanne]

Jan 6, 2012 10:58:45 GMT -5 chicarita said:

No, it's only 3 weeks a year. Do you think that doing it for that short of time will have a seriously negative impact?

Yes, I think 3 weeks is too long to be deficient on protein.

I'm not familiar enough with veggie based protein options to advise you. But I would not go that long without getting in 100+ grams protein per day. You can get yourself into trouble pretty quickly.

[Paula]

Truth be told, Id be kind of nervous to do something like that personally. Literally EVERYTHING that goes on in our bodies involves protein in one way or another. We're talking everything...hair, organs, blood, enzymes, DNA....everything involves amino acids (protein in its most basic and broken down form). I dont know the health status of normie vegans, but Id dare say that since there are a lot of them out there and they seem to do okay...thats one thing. I know there is always a concern about protein deficiency in vegetarian/vegan diets.

But being a DSer is a whole different matter entirely. You are already malabsorbing, which is why the increased need to consume protein. DSers have to eat well above the USDA recommended daily allowance of protein just to keep from protein deficiency. Plus you have to make sure you eat enough of the essential amino acids that our bodies can only get from food. You get all of those essentials in meat products, but the veggie based proteins all lack one or another. I think the question might be if you'd be able to physically eat enough vegan food to be able to get the protein in that you would need.

I dont know for sure, but Id be worried about something like that. 3 weeks is plenty of time to get yourself behind the 8-ball protein-wise and protein deficiency isnt anything to play with. Once it was over, you would still have the problem with being able to intake enough food to make up that deficiency...with a system that is designed to not absorb as it was anyway.

[ModestoK]

I wouldn't recommend it myself, but there are some vegan protein powders out there.
No doubt they taste like monkeyass, but hey, if you want to try it and are sure you don't get protein malnutrition during the 3 weeks go for it.

Here are some vegan protein powders that came up when I googled it: (I was curious.)
1) Hemp protein. Hemp is a nutritional powerhouse. Hemp oil is a rich source of polyunsaturated essential fatty acids (aka, the “good” fats). Hemp seeds contain all the essential amino acids and essential fatty acids. And hemp proteins are similar to proteins found in the human body, which makes them easy to digest and assimilate quickly, so they’re a great alternative to whey and soy proteins, which are often heavily processed. Vegan and raw athletes, take note: they’re terrific for athletic recovery and muscle repair. And don’t let the green color scare you: hemp protein is tasty, and the popular Nutiva brand comes in several flavors.

Best of all (and unlike other protein sources), hemp protein is also rich in fiber, boasting eight natural grams per serving. Drink up!

2) Brown rice protein. Many vegans rely on this allergen-free, gentle, and high quality protein powder for their workout and recovery smoothies. My fellow health counselor, Andrea Moss, uses it as a cornerstone of the morning smoothies in her level of the Spark! Wellness + Choosing Raw cleanse. I recommend the NutriBiotic or Sun Warrior brands.

3) Yellow Pea Protein. This is a favorite among raw athletes, Brendan Brazier included, and it appears in all of his Vega smoothie infusions and whole foods health optimizers.

With choices like this, why would we seek out highly processed and (often) sweetened powders? Hemp protein, which is my personal favorite, is merely powdered hemp seeds. It doesn’t get more natural than that.

I have a friend that has used BioChem vegan protein but she always adds fruit and yogurt to make smoothies. I think it has around 25 grams protein per serving.
Another one I've seen is the Spirulina based powder.

It will probably be costly to get in enough protein, but good luck if you decide to do this.

[renegadeorange]

I could be wrong, but I believe in these types of fasts, there are stipulations for people who need to do things differently due to their health. I mean, I know that a diabetic would need to possibly follow some different rules. Perhaps adding in some dairy but no meat can work for this short period of time (or supplementing with protein drinks).

[happycatbert]

I have no frame of reference on the vegan part - but for me - since I can't eat seafood, and am Catholic, I have the ability to eat meat on Fridays during Lent. So says my priest

I personally wouldn't take three weeks off from adequate protein. Too hard to get it back up.

[chicarita]

Thanks everyone! I am definitely concerned and don't want to do anything to screw up my labs - I know how hard it is to dig out of the basement once you get in.

ModestoK I exalt you! That's GREAT information!!!! I'm going to look into ALL of this!

I need to talk to my Pastor, I know the goal of this is not to inflict any damage. I'll have to see if there is a way to supplement that is in the spirit of the fast.

You are all the best, thanks so much for the feedback!

[teachmid]

We did this at my church a couple of years ago...pre-DS for me but diabetic on Byetta and insulin. I had to improvise based on my medical issues and did a limited fast. Personally, I think a strict Daniel fast post DS would not be a good idea.

[huskerchad]

If you are willing to do soy and tolerate it, it could get you through three weeks. The real question to answer is this: if it turns out that your life and health depends on it, are you willing to do whey or egg white protein supplements instead of the 3 week fast? If so, you're probably good. Try the fast, use soy, eat as much vegetable protein as you can, and if that's not enough, supplement with the real stuff.

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2012 10:58:45 GMT -5 chicarita said:

No, it's only 3 weeks a year. Do you think that doing it for that short of time will have a seriously negative impact?

Yes, I think it's too long to do that kind of fast. People can drop into protein malnutrition in that length of time.

You might consider using protein shakes only for your protein needs during that time, if the fast is for religious reasons. (And no, not all soy or other plant source shakes. Whey or egg.)

If it is for "health" reasons, you need to understand that such a fast will destroy your health as a DSer, not enhance it.

Ah, I just read further and see that it is for religious reasons. I come from decades as a Pentecostal/Charismatic believer and have a LOT of experience with this kind of stuff. I was clergy for most of that time.

From that background, I am going to give you a very strong warning of advice: DO NOT BASE ANY HEALTH DECISION ON YOUR PASTOR'S WORDS. If he tries to insist that this is in any way a "better" thing to do than to take care of your DS'ed body, he is wrong, out of line, out of God's will and needs to shut himself right UP.

Yeah, I've seen it happen. I've been the recipient of that kind of advice. I've had someone try to do deliverance ministry on me when I was in a hypoglycemic seizure. I've been told I was sinning when I followed my doctor's orders and did not fast. And I've seen it done to others, as well.

There is NOTHING in the Bible to support this kind of hogwash. You can still be in the spirit of the fast and take care of your health.

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2012 12:21:19 GMT -5 ModestoK said:

I wouldn't recommend it myself, but there are some vegan protein powders out there.
.

NO. Just NO. The only time a DSer should be relying on a plant source protein supplement is when allergies prevent the use of animal source supplements.

[rena]

eeee. i don't think it is a good idea... I tried fasting for just one day... It was the worst decision ever. My body needs protein. If it doesn't get it... BAD things happen. BADDDD.. I get light-headed, i can't focus, and i get horribly weak.

I wouldn't recommend it. I just decided I would fast from something else to put my focus on God. I fasted from Facebook. One of my biggest distractions and time sucks... I think it was healthier for me in more ways then one.

[RedSkittles]

I do think you could live off of beans, soy, and tofu for 3 weeks. I wouldn't want to...but yeah.

If you stocked up appropriately, counted your protein correctly, and ate enough.

But if you are anything but wonderfully well-nourished during this time, it's not good for you. I don't see the point in messing up your body's metabolism to be closer to God, but that's just me.

If you aren't eating enough for a short period of time, your body automatically goes to your muscles, not fat, first. So, you burn up muscle mass and especially as a newer post op DSer, you'd have gone a long time burning muscle mass (there is always some degree of lean body mass loss after massive weight loss). Less muscle mass affects your metabolism, so when you go back to eating normal, you really do have the possibility of gaining weight. This is the exact reason why fad diets result in people weighing more than when they started.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I think there are probably better ways to connect with God, but you are going to have to be VERY careful and VERY aware of what you are eating. And I don't really see how a constant preoccupation with food is going to help you during that time anyways...lol.

I like Rena's idea of abstaining from something else.

[chicarita]

Jan 6, 2012 23:48:21 GMT -5 @en said:

Jan 6, 2012 10:58:45 GMT -5 chicarita said:

No, it's only 3 weeks a year. Do you think that doing it for that short of time will have a seriously negative impact?

Yes, I think it's too long to do that kind of fast. People can drop into protein malnutrition in that length of time.

You might consider using protein shakes only for your protein needs during that time, if the fast is for religious reasons. (And no, not all soy or other plant source shakes. Whey or egg.)

If it is for "health" reasons, you need to understand that such a fast will destroy your health as a DSer, not enhance it.

Ah, I just read further and see that it is for religious reasons. I come from decades as a Pentecostal/Charismatic believer and have a LOT of experience with this kind of stuff. I was clergy for most of that time.

From that background, I am going to give you a very strong warning of advice: DO NOT BASE ANY HEALTH DECISION ON YOUR PASTOR'S WORDS. If he tries to insist that this is in any way a "better" thing to do than to take care of your DS'ed body, he is wrong, out of line, out of God's will and needs to shut himself right UP.

Yeah, I've seen it happen. I've been the recipient of that kind of advice. I've had someone try to do deliverance ministry on me when I was in a hypoglycemic seizure. I've been told I was sinning when I followed my doctor's orders and did not fast. And I've seen it done to others, as well.

There is NOTHING in the Bible to support this kind of hogwash. You can still be in the spirit of the fast and take care of your health.

I've been to a church like that too. Don't go there any longer.

No, my Pastor now is really, really supportive. He said to skip it all together if I want. I just want to do it, it's something I really enjoy (believe it or not) each year. But I wanted to see if would do me a lot of harm. Sounds like it would, so I'm glad I asked!

I'm going to talk to him and see which shakes would be more aligned, the egg or the whey. Guessing the whey but I'll check.

EN, do you think that with the shake supplementation and LOTS of beans, lentils, nuts and soy that it would be enough to not do serious damage? When I was looking up online, they all had a good amount of protein but I'm concerned about getting them all in post-op. I mean 3 oz of peanut butter had the same amount of protein as 3 oz of ground beef but that's a LOT Of peanut butter!

Want to do this, but not willing to sacrifice my life for it. Don't think God would want that either!

Also, which of the protein in shakes do you think would be best absorbed?

[Psyche]

Champion Nutrition Pure Whey is the shake I swear by.

[hema324]

Um, there's no reason why you cant do a vegan 3 week fast. I am a lacto vegetarian DSer and tho i do consume dairy, I can assure you that you will be able to do it and meet your daily protein requirements. Since you are not currently a veg/vegan, it will require some preparation and planning on your part and once you start your fast, you will need to eat every 2 hours. Soy is a complete protein so you would be safe there. Dont forget, you have nuts, grains and beans to factor in too. I have full faith that if you want to do it, you can. If you need help or have questions, you can email me.

[chicarita]

Thanks Hema, I appreciate it. When were you switched?

[chicarita]

Jan 8, 2012 2:24:30 GMT -5 Psyche said:

Champion Nutrition Pure Whey is the shake I swear by.

I haven't tried that one yet. I'm trying a bunch out in hopes that I like one but I know that your tastes change post op so it might be a bit futile.

I like GNC Pro Performance AMP but I admit that I'm not as up on what to look for in protein shakes. What is it about that one that you like, is it a flavor or the fact that the protein is more easily absorbed, etc? Thanks for commenting, I'm going to pick some up and try it.

[emalee]

I was under the impression intaking too much soy protein is not good for you?

[Psyche]

Jan 8, 2012 15:58:06 GMT -5 chicarita said:

Jan 8, 2012 2:24:30 GMT -5 Psyche said:

Champion Nutrition Pure Whey is the shake I swear by.

I haven't tried that one yet. I'm trying a bunch out in hopes that I like one but I know that your tastes change post op so it might be a bit futile.

I like GNC Pro Performance AMP but I admit that I'm not as up on what to look for in protein shakes. What is it about that one that you like, is it a flavor or the fact that the protein is more easily absorbed, etc? Thanks for commenting, I'm going to pick some up and try it.

Taste, texture and the way I absorb it.

I am picky about tastes and I loathe things that taste like chemicals, and this does not, to me. I have tried a lot of different shakes and that is the first one I found that did not feel gritty. Well, except the last swallow, then there is a little bit, but it's the same thing with hot chocolate and coffee. The dregs. I am also hypoglycemic and it hits my system fairly quickly. I notice a difference in how I feel far faster than I do eating straight protein. We carry a packet of the protein plus a shaker bottle and a bottle of water with us everywhere, just in case.

For plain shakes, I usually have the chocolate and mix mine with cold water, add cream and some ice cubes.

The vanilla powder I use in smoothies a lot. Now that I am needing more carbs, I use juice instead of water and add sliced up frozen bananas and blend. Yum!

The mocha flavor I often add to coffee or freeze coffee in ice cubes and blend it. It makes a good morning pick-me-up and the cold is similar to a Starbucks frappuccino.

I also add powders to pudding and Greek yogurt.

My husband has sensory issues and is very sensitive to tastes and textures and he drinks the same brand. He prefers the Cookies and Cream.

[Sandra C.]

My gym trainer is vegan, not D.S., she uses tofu, marinated in soy, sauté for flavor, and lots of veggies.

[mesa0102]

Jan 8, 2012 17:47:38 GMT -5 emalee said:

I was under the impression intaking too much soy protein is not good for you?

Yeah, me too. I thought I had heard that soy should be limited due to the way it activates estrogen receptors or something like that?

[Deleted]

Jan 8, 2012 13:30:29 GMT -5 hema324 said:

Um, there's no reason why you cant do a vegan 3 week fast. I am a lacto vegetarian DSer and tho i do consume dairy, I can assure you that you will be able to do it and meet your daily protein requirements. Since you are not currently a veg/vegan, it will require some preparation and planning on your part and once you start your fast, you will need to eat every 2 hours. Soy is a complete protein so you would be safe there. Dont forget, you have nuts, grains and beans to factor in too. I have full faith that if you want to do it, you can. If you need help or have questions, you can email me.

You had your DS when? You last had labs done when? And the results were?

[newyorkbitch]

Jan 7, 2012 9:22:57 GMT -5 chicarita said:

Jan 6, 2012 23:48:21 GMT -5 @en said:

Yes, I think it's too long to do that kind of fast. People can drop into protein malnutrition in that length of time.

You might consider using protein shakes only for your protein needs during that time, if the fast is for religious reasons. (And no, not all soy or other plant source shakes. Whey or egg.)

If it is for "health" reasons, you need to understand that such a fast will destroy your health as a DSer, not enhance it.

Ah, I just read further and see that it is for religious reasons. I come from decades as a Pentecostal/Charismatic believer and have a LOT of experience with this kind of stuff. I was clergy for most of that time.

From that background, I am going to give you a very strong warning of advice: DO NOT BASE ANY HEALTH DECISION ON YOUR PASTOR'S WORDS. If he tries to insist that this is in any way a "better" thing to do than to take care of your DS'ed body, he is wrong, out of line, out of God's will and needs to shut himself right UP.

Yeah, I've seen it happen. I've been the recipient of that kind of advice. I've had someone try to do deliverance ministry on me when I was in a hypoglycemic seizure. I've been told I was sinning when I followed my doctor's orders and did not fast. And I've seen it done to others, as well.

There is NOTHING in the Bible to support this kind of hogwash. You can still be in the spirit of the fast and take care of your health.

I've been to a church like that too. Don't go there any longer.

No, my Pastor now is really, really supportive. He said to skip it all together if I want. I just want to do it, it's something I really enjoy (believe it or not) each year. But I wanted to see if would do me a lot of harm. Sounds like it would, so I'm glad I asked!

I'm going to talk to him and see which shakes would be more aligned, the egg or the whey. Guessing the whey but I'll check.

EN, do you think that with the shake supplementation and LOTS of beans, lentils, nuts and soy that it would be enough to not do serious damage? When I was looking up online, they all had a good amount of protein but I'm concerned about getting them all in post-op. I mean 3 oz of peanut butter had the same amount of protein as 3 oz of ground beef but that's a LOT Of peanut butter!

Want to do this, but not willing to sacrifice my life for it. Don't think God would want that either!

Also, which of the protein in shakes do you think would be best absorbed?

You're going to ask your pastor for medical advice

[chicarita]

No, I went to my doctor and here for medical advice. I'm going to him for spiritual advice.

When I spoke with him, he said to just do the shakes, either is fine, as the goal is not to be sick. He said to eat meat if I want too, and just fast from something else (TV, internet, etc).

But, for me, food is the biggest distraction. And again, I'm pre-op, so I'm doing the regular fast this year. But I wanted the information for moving forward.

I'm going to do a full vegan fast with the exception of a really high quality protein shake at each meal. Between the soy, nuts, grains and shakes, I should be okay. When I calculated out a typical menu (taking into account I won't be able to eat very much), I figured I would be getting about 90-95 grams per day.

Regarding soy and estrogen, it's actually been proven that while it has estrogenic properties, the isoflavones are typically weak in humans. Phytoestrogens aren't very effective at solving hot flashes, etc. While excess soy in young women with developing sex organs and pregnant women is not good, in an old menopausal chica like me, it would only help, trust me.

[chicarita]

Jan 8, 2012 23:43:38 GMT -5 newyorkbitch said:

Jan 7, 2012 9:22:57 GMT -5 chicarita said:

I've been to a church like that too. Don't go there any longer.

No, my Pastor now is really, really supportive. He said to skip it all together if I want. I just want to do it, it's something I really enjoy (believe it or not) each year. But I wanted to see if would do me a lot of harm. Sounds like it would, so I'm glad I asked!

I'm going to talk to him and see which shakes would be more aligned, the egg or the whey. Guessing the whey but I'll check.

EN, do you think that with the shake supplementation and LOTS of beans, lentils, nuts and soy that it would be enough to not do serious damage? When I was looking up online, they all had a good amount of protein but I'm concerned about getting them all in post-op. I mean 3 oz of peanut butter had the same amount of protein as 3 oz of ground beef but that's a LOT Of peanut butter!

Want to do this, but not willing to sacrifice my life for it. Don't think God would want that either!

Also, which of the protein in shakes do you think would be best absorbed?

You're going to ask your pastor for medical advice

No, I went to my doctor and here for medical advice. I'm going to him for spiritual advice.

When I spoke with him, he said to just do the shakes, either is fine, as the goal is not to be sick. He said to eat meat if I want too, and just fast from something else (TV, internet, etc).

But, for me, food is the biggest distraction. And again, I'm pre-op, so I'm doing the regular fast this year. But I wanted the information for moving forward.

I'm going to do a full vegan fast with the exception of a really high quality protein shake at each meal. Between the soy, nuts, grains and shakes, I should be okay. When I calculated out a typical menu (taking into account I won't be able to eat very much), I figured I would be getting about 90-95 grams per day.

Regarding soy and estrogen, it's actually been proven that while it has estrogenic properties, the isoflavones are typically weak in humans. Phytoestrogens aren't very effective at solving hot flashes, etc. While excess soy in young women with developing sex organs and pregnant women is not good, in an old menopausal chica like me, it would only help, trust me.

[Deleted]

Jan 9, 2012 9:56:11 GMT -5 chicarita said:

No, I went to my doctor and here for medical advice. I'm going to him for spiritual advice.

When I spoke with him, he said to just do the shakes, either is fine, as the goal is not to be sick. He said to eat meat if I want too, and just fast from something else (TV, internet, etc).

But, for me, food is the biggest distraction. And again, I'm pre-op, so I'm doing the regular fast this year. But I wanted the information for moving forward.

I'm going to do a full vegan fast with the exception of a really high quality protein shake at each meal. Between the soy, nuts, grains and shakes, I should be okay. When I calculated out a typical menu (taking into account I won't be able to eat very much), I figured I would be getting about 90-95 grams per day.

Regarding soy and estrogen, it's actually been proven that while it has estrogenic properties, the isoflavones are typically weak in humans. Phytoestrogens aren't very effective at solving hot flashes, etc. While excess soy in young women with developing sex organs and pregnant women is not good, in an old menopausal chica like me, it would only help, trust me.

I am so pleased that your pastor is not a maniac control freak! (Um, I don't have strong opinions about that kind of thing.....Who me? )

That sounds like a reasonable approach to start with, as long as you are able to stomach that kind of food and supplementation when the time comes. Sometimes our bellies dictate what we ingest to a very severe degree.

If that turns out to be the case for you, I'm confident you'll find a way to participate in the fast that still makes it meaningful for you. The idea is to deny your body in order to make more time and space for God. That can be done in many ways.

[chicarita]

Thanks EN!

I have some strong opinions on that too - I think the only reason I was drawn back to the church was because of Pastor Tim. He's a strong Christian and encourages that life in others, but he's not hyper-"religious" if you know what I mean? He actually said "Stop being 'religious' about this fast. This is not about 'religion'. This is about making time for God. Not doing something because "the church said so". "

I love him.

ANYHOOOO, thank you so much for your replies. Hearing from a DSer that also understands spiritually what I'm trying to accomplish has been more than valuable. Not sure I'll ever be able to pay you back for ALL the guidance you've provided (even back when I was lurking and you weren't even aware that you were providing any!), but I'll sure as hell try to pay it forward.

Thanks so much - EXALT!!!