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Post by jbandmmomma on May 30, 2012 15:14:20 GMT -5
In my quest to find a provider closer to home, I called Franklin Square's bariatric center (Baltimore, MD). Ginny - the nurse coordinator for the program - informed me that they are no longer done at that facility because they have really poor outcomes, and are dangerous. She stated that rate of loss is too steep and nutritional stores cannot be maintained (supplementation, vitamins, etc.) She concluded by telling me that I did not need this surgery, that fewer and fewer surgeons are providing it for the stated reasons, and that I would not have much luck finding someone willing to perform it.
harumph.
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Post by bookfaerie on May 30, 2012 15:30:35 GMT -5
She is misinformed. The old Scopinaro procedure was the big issue. Not the DS. But many bariatric nurses think it's the same thing. And if she really is talking about the DS in its current configuration...she is a nitwit.
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Post by Joanne on May 30, 2012 15:43:31 GMT -5
Unfortunately we're starting to see non-DS surgeons become more aggressive in negative talk about the DS. It's based either on their own recognized inability to perform it, and therefore trying to steer people to what they do perform - or it is based on their own ignorance of the data and their belief in the rumors.
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Post by Joanne on May 30, 2012 15:52:47 GMT -5
Another thing I'd add, is that as DS'ers we've come to see and recognize this over and over again. There are few things more frustrating to me than to have people, especially surgeons and other medical professionals, talk out of their asses about something they know very little about. I've come to expect it, and as a DS'er I think it's something we just have to get used to living with. I was talking to my husband about it last night, regarding a similar incident, and said it almost feels like being Christopher Columbus, and you KNOW the world is round, you even know the science behind it, but you have people telling you all the time that it's not and you're the crazy one.
All I can say is that some people choose to believe what they want because its easier that way. I'll also follow up by saying that yes, I do think there are some problem DS's out there. I read on another forum of a woman hospitalized for malnutrition, and she has a 25CM common channel. So there are some bad DS surgeons floating out there, all the more reason to make sure you choose a vetted one. There are also some noncompliant patients out there. The DS is not for the person who doesn't want to follow the guidelines to a T, and commit to lifelong follow up. There are risks with it. There are risks with any bariatric surgery. There are bigger risks by staying morbidly obese.
I think Dr Roslin said it very well, so I'll copy and quote him from his response in the Keynote Speaker section of this forum:
This is part of his response to a question asking why the DS wasn't more mainstream:
"I think that again, most surgeons have never ever seen a DS, and the majority have no idea how to do one, nor were they ever trained in it, so again, they’re going to encourage people to go for operations that they’re more familiar with. In addition they’re told that the patients have intractable diarrhea, micronutrient deficiencies, and the stereotype then plays into their desire to not learn necessarily new things.
I think there are more doctors that are coming to Lenox Hill, and places like it, and are showing an interest in the DS, because the sleeve to DS is the most logical transition. But the real push will come from patients. Until patients are leaving doctor’s offices, they’re not going to really care until they’re losing market share in their community. Additionally, the majority of feedback that goes into the press about bariatric surgery is in the first year. I really think that the advantage of the DS operation is years down the line, and as physicians we’re only reimbursed for what we do in the short term. And in fact the reimbursement for DS, at least what we receive, is actually lower than other bariatric operations. So it’s certainly not an effective business model.
So when you’re getting all this positive short term feedback, why not do an operation that you’re familiar with it, that you’ve been trained to do, that you’re experienced to do, rather than learn something new, if patients aren’t walking out of your center and going across town? And you can do more procedures and get reimbursed at a greater amount and probably have lower complications.
So unfortunately, we’re not incentivized for long-term outcomes, and I think that’s really, really unfortunate."
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Post by larra on May 30, 2012 16:00:00 GMT -5
I doubt they were ever doing it. This nurse is either misinformed (the most likely explanation, IMHO) or dishonest (less likely). Either way, she's wrong. There are long term studies involving many DS patients that clearly demonstrate the excellent longterm results of the DS not just for weight loss, but also for maintainence of good nutritional health.
but as others have told you, we see this crap all the time. I understand your desire to have your surgery close to home, but unless you are lucky enough to live near a vetted DS surgeon, it isn't going to happen. Accept the need to travel, it will be more than worth it in the long run.
Larra
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Post by Band to DS on May 30, 2012 17:07:33 GMT -5
I saw a counselor yesterday & she said, "I thought that the switch was only done in people who are really obese, I mean, like over 500 pounds." I told her that was the old-school way of thinking. LOL
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Post by beemerbeeper on May 30, 2012 17:20:24 GMT -5
Liar liar pants on fire. It should be considered malpractice to make these factually incorrect claims.
R
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Post by MontanaGirl on May 30, 2012 17:32:19 GMT -5
i feel so irritated seeing doctor, nurses, and medical personel to spout nonsense! the DS is an absolutly amazing surgery! IT CHANGES PEOPLES LIVES!! these medical personal really deter pt's and is soooo sad because they might never follow up on educating themselves.... leaving them with out this amazing gift.... it just getts under my skin so bad!!!! if only i could find them all and rub their nose the the crap they spout out!!!
ok i am done ranting.... for now anyway lol
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Post by actiongirl on May 30, 2012 21:59:29 GMT -5
I ran into this same non-DS practice malarkey when I first started looking at bariatric surgery, too. It seems like asking a non-DS vetted practice about getting the DS is like asking a Pizza Hut manager if you should have tacos for dinner!
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2012 22:45:23 GMT -5
The only Baltimore DS surgeons I knew about were Schweitzer (no longer on the list - he started INSISTING on doing all DSs in two steps), and Vanguri - I haven't seen a patient of his in years. Time to move on to a REAL DS surgeon.
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Post by Paula on May 30, 2012 23:48:20 GMT -5
Gonna have to call bullshit on this bariatric nurse you spoke with. There are a number of vetted and qualified surgeons who do perform the DS, including a handful who will perform the trickier revision from RNY to DS. There are a number of vets here who have lived with the DS for many years and they all seem pretty healthy and vibrant to me.
My advice is to get the surgery you really want the first time around. If its the DS, travel to one of the vetted surgeons and get exactly what you want.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 5:48:58 GMT -5
If you were talking to someone in Baltimore, contact Dr. Hazem Elariny in Vienna, Virginia (about an hour south of Baltimore). He's been doing the DS for years and still does.
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Post by Shawnie (kouklamonkey) on May 31, 2012 6:34:02 GMT -5
"So it’s certainly not an effective business model." ~Roslin
This says it all.
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Post by Melinda on May 31, 2012 9:11:14 GMT -5
I'm a Maryland girl. I remember Schweitzer - I would call there once a week, always get an answering machine or voicemail, and left three messages total. Never ONCE received a call back. I contacted Vanguri's office and received this huge packet in the mail. My opinion, back then, of Vanguri was he treated ALL like RNY rules. I remember he had this contract he wanted you to sign before you could see him stating something like "I swear to never have a bite of ice cream as long as I live". Right. So, like Janet said, I found Dr. Hazem Elariny in Fairfax, VA. By the time I had my surgery in November 2002, he had already done more than 500 DS surgeries. He does a great mandatory seminar where he went into detail about ALL the weight loss surgeries, risks, complications, advantages, etc. etc. Driving the extra hour to have him as my surgeon was the best choice I made.
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Post by sheanie on May 31, 2012 9:29:17 GMT -5
So what surgery DID she recommend? I'm guessing ONE THAT THEY PERFORM.
As in: When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
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Post by jbandmmomma on May 31, 2012 11:19:17 GMT -5
The only Baltimore DS surgeons I knew about were Schweitzer (no longer on the list - he started INSISTING on doing all DSs in two steps), and Vanguri - I haven't seen a patient of his in years. Time to move on to a REAL DS surgeon. This is the facility that Vangurri operated out of until very recently. Vangurri did do the surgery, and I have spoken with his patients. He no longer is with the group - which I found out after I spoke with Ginny. |
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Post by jbandmmomma on May 31, 2012 11:21:47 GMT -5
I doubt they were ever doing it. This nurse is either misinformed (the most likely explanation, IMHO) or dishonest (less likely). Either way, she's wrong. There are long term studies involving many DS patients that clearly demonstrate the excellent longterm results of the DS not just for weight loss, but also for maintainence of good nutritional health. but as others have told you, we see this crap all the time. I understand your desire to have your surgery close to home, but unless you are lucky enough to live near a vetted DS surgeon, it isn't going to happen. Accept the need to travel, it will be more than worth it in the long run. Larra I'm not new to this - I have been committed to getting this done since September 2010, but took a break due to an unplanned pregnancy and baby girl. I have done the research. This facility did provide the DS, until just recently, when Dr. Vangurri departed the group. And I understand what you are saying re: travel, but it is not simply that easy for my particular circumstances right now. My point was the amazing amount and ferocity of disinformation being disseminated by (supposedly educated) medical care providers. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 11:43:11 GMT -5
I'm not new to this - I have been committed to getting this done since September 2010, but took a break due to an unplanned pregnancy and baby girl. I have done the research. This facility did provide the DS, until just recently, when Dr. Vangurri departed the group. And I understand what you are saying re: travel, but it is not simply that easy for my particular circumstances right now. My point was the amazing amount and ferocity of disinformation being disseminated by (supposedly educated) medical care providers. The stupidity and outright lying is depressing, isn't it?  If you could do Baltimore, could you do the trek to Dr. Elariny? |
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