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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 21:04:24 GMT -5
My revision is in less than two weeks (RNY to DS) and as the day approaches, I find myself questioning things I've accepted as fact. For instance: Revisions Lose Slower.
I've read and never questioned that revisions lose slower but I don't think I've read why. It wouldn't surprise me if the answer is metabolic but lately I've been reading many posts that say weight loss (with all the surgeries) is achieved by restriction but maintained more easily for DSers with the malabsorption. OK, if that's true it begs the question, why do revisions lose slower? And the immediate next question... what can we do to maximize the window?
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Post by chicarita on Mar 19, 2012 11:25:23 GMT -5
I've heard the same thing - you and I are going in the same day but I'm Band to DS (with Dr. Sudan at Duke). No one has been able to give me a real answer on it. Hope someone replies here. Good luck on your revision!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 13:07:02 GMT -5
Unfortunately posting over here on the revision board just doesn't get the same traction as in the main ds board -- let's give it another day or two and if necessary I'll cross-post. I'm sure we've got the knowledge base in this group to get the best available answer(s) to this question.
I'll be rooting for you with your revision! Look for a PM from me... we can get a little mini-support thing going?!
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Post by redbabe08 on Mar 19, 2012 13:18:18 GMT -5
i didn't find this to be the case for me & my GF who revised from lapband to RNY.
her revision was in july (had 65lbs to lose) - she got to goal around christmas time.
i didn't have much too lose - revised due to mechanical failure & was back to goal in 2 months.
i've read that it's slower for some, but not sure it's a standard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2012 16:04:28 GMT -5
Good to hear. Thanks for sharing Redbabe. So glad for you both.
So is it an urban myth or is it often true? Wonder who else has experience to share?!?!
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kat44
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Post by kat44 on Mar 19, 2012 17:26:22 GMT -5
I was going to post the same thing. It has been bothing me as well. I was also wondering if this is true for all revisions? I have a lapband so basically none of my digestive system has been changed. Once the band is removed I could be considered a virgin DSer or whatever. I mean I may have some side effects from the band being wrapped around my stomach for the past 4 years but I haven't had much restriction so everything is going through rather quickly. I just don't see why any of this would make me a slow loser. I mean nothing with my intestines has been changed??? Just thinking out loud here....
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Post by honeybadger11 on Mar 19, 2012 19:24:35 GMT -5
I had the lapband for 5 yrs never lost more than 30lbs. I NEVER bought into the fact that i would lose slower! I exceeded my surgeons expectations and goals at my 3 month check up. He expects all Dsers (virgin or not) to have lost 25% of their overall weight loss. I was at 41% at 3 month. My personal goal was to have lost 50% by 6 month. Im 4 1/2 months out and im down 52% Ive seen all types of weight loss in the last 1yr that ive been on the boards regularly (here and OH) and it seems to me that there are many factors besides just being virgin or not. Such as carb intake, protein intake, exercise and your own personal chemistry. I say set reasonable goals and do your best to reach them. If you happen to be a slower loser be prepared to adjust. The DS is a wonderful tool and even if it takes you longer, you will get there!
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Post by hema324 on Mar 19, 2012 22:16:27 GMT -5
I had my revision from molina band to DS 12/1/2011. I lost 22lbs in my pre-op fast and since the surgery day have lost 16lbs. I have lost quite a few inches.....actually I tend to lost more inches than weight but I have heard, and am currently experiencing that yes, revisions lose slower because of metabolic fluctuations. Now, I also have PCOS and everybody is different, so please keep that in mind. Also, i can tell you that I did not experience much of a restriction going from the lap band to the DS. Sure, it is less than what a "normal" person would eat, but not at all like the 2ozs from the initial band surgery (and rightly so). Trust me when I say I am anxious for my 3mo follow up this week.
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 21, 2012 9:21:12 GMT -5
Hi, I'm an RNY revision to DS and that's one of the first things I read too, that revision loss can move a bit slower than a virgin surgery. I think this is more specific to the RNY/DS than the lapband to DS, because right, with the lapband there's been no cutting/suturing of the stomach or the intestines. I brought with me a whole set of problems having the RNY and hernia surgery - scar tissue, adhesions, mesh (for the hernia), oouch suturing technique hard for him to undo. So it works, but maybe not as whip efficient as if it had never been touched before. I'm also 50, have virtually dead metabolism and a lightweight at 240 going into surgery. I'm very pleased with my progress so far, I hoped for a good drop in the beginning and I did, 20 lbs. Now its slower, and I personally have an odd loss pattern that works around my period too.
Hema-got your PM as well, and thought I'd answer here, I think it's important this revision board has more one-stop info, and cross-posting on the main board with a link to this post is always a good idea, too.
I'm not familiar with PCOS, I know it's polycystic ovary syndrome, but don't know much about it or how it might bear out on weight loss. Since it affects your period and hormones, it's entirely possible. Can you post what a couple of days of eating menus? Also, have you gotten your post-operative report, do you know the size of your sleeve, est length of your common channel? These are things the others will ask as well to help give you the most informed answers possible. It's tricky ground to define what's 'average' for weight loss, because it depends on so many different factors. You're averaging a little over a pound a week, it does seem to have slowed down a little earlier than it might. I think posting what your menus are, getting your operative report stats is a good place to start, and more info on PCOS and how it affects weight loss. Glad you posted.
Liria - did I miss somewhere that insurance has approved you?! Or are you scheduled, proceeding and will have that sort out later, since you were ready to self-pay, and if approved, you will get credit? Please let me know if you'd like an angel, some moral support.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 15:47:28 GMT -5
It's so valuable to hear other folks' experience. Chalk some of this up to my 2-week freak, but the closer it gets, the more real and specific the questions.
OK, so personally I'm going to go with your advice, Honeybadger. I've set reasonable goals and will work to reach them... and I'm prepared if it all goes slower: prepared to work out longer and harder (and soooooo looking forward to being able to) and prepared, or at least I'm fine with the idea of going super low carb for a year. I hope it's similar to what I remember from the RNY b/c it was easy to stay away from food with all that restriction.
{{{{{Sharyl}}}}} Insurance is a dick. (I hope you're reading this, insco. Dick dick dick dick dick!) ;-) I'm self-pay with the right to appeal. It's a ridiculous game but it is what it is.... and I am at a point where if I'm not on a liquid diet (high protein/low carb shakes) then I should absolutely be on insulin (blood sugar so high it causes error readings on my glucometer = bad). But the idea of insulin with a pouch that dumps is totally unacceptable and I believe UNsafe. So the best thing I could do for my health was decide that whatever the insco says, I'm HAVING this revision. It was a matter of when... and health/safety outweighed (pun intended!) financial solvency, so in I go on the 29th!
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Post by honeybadger11 on Mar 21, 2012 17:25:26 GMT -5
It's so valuable to hear other folks' experience. Chalk some of this up to my 2-week freak, but the closer it gets, the more real and specific the questions. OK, so personally I'm going to go with your advice, Honeybadger. I've set reasonable goals and will work to reach them... and I'm prepared if it all goes slower: prepared to work out longer and harder (and soooooo looking forward to being able to) and prepared, or at least I'm fine with the idea of going super low carb for a year. I hope it's similar to what I remember from the RNY b/c it was easy to stay away from food with all that restriction. {{{{{Sharyl}}}}} Insurance is a dick. (I hope you're reading this, insco. Dick dick dick dick dick!) ;-) I'm self-pay with the right to appeal. It's a ridiculous game but it is what it is.... and I am at a point where if I'm not on a liquid diet (high protein/low carb shakes) then I should absolutely be on insulin (blood sugar so high it causes error readings on my glucometer = bad). But the idea of insulin with a pouch that dumps is totally unacceptable and I believe UNsafe. So the best thing I could do for my health was decide that whatever the insco says, I'm HAVING this revision. It was a matter of when... and health/safety outweighed (pun intended!) financial solvency, so in I go on the 29th! Yes, Ins co are dicks!!! Good for you on moving forward with your surgery anyways. I hope you get your repeal:) I think you will do great with the DS:) and you know what they say...slow and steady wins the race! I will be looking for you on the otherside!
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 21, 2012 18:14:54 GMT -5
{{{{{Sharyl}}}}} Insurance is a dick. (I hope you're reading this, insco. Dick dick dick dick dick!) ;-) I'm self-pay with the right to appeal. It's a ridiculous game but it is what it is.... and I am at a point where if I'm not on a liquid diet (high protein/low carb shakes) then I should absolutely be on insulin (blood sugar so high it causes error readings on my glucometer = bad). But the idea of insulin with a pouch that dumps is totally unacceptable and I believe UNsafe. So the best thing I could do for my health was decide that whatever the insco says, I'm HAVING this revision. It was a matter of when... and health/safety outweighed (pun intended!) financial solvency, so in I go on the 29th! Eesh Don't get me started on insurance in this country. I hope you're going to appeal, you DESERVE to have this covered. I also totally understand picking/choosing your battles, and now you've got a LOT on your mind. Hollah if you want/need some extra in-town support. It's true, about rate of loss - it is really dependent on so many factors.There has always been a perception that WLS is about rapid loss - and there is often a decent drop in the beginning, but it always levels off, and for the most part, the average loss is 1-2lbs a week. The thing about WLS is it's about permanent weight loss and actually being able to get to a goal. If you would like some additional suggestions, since you say you're not feeling much restriction difference from your lapband, definitely post some of your daily menus, and it never hurts to see your own operative report so you know exactly what was done.
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Post by hema324 on Mar 21, 2012 21:19:17 GMT -5
thanks girlrocker! i dont mind that you posted here at all. I think i PM's you because I was embarrassed but I come here for support and information and guidance and if what i'm going thru can help others, then I should have posted it here initially. I actually have an appt with my Dr on Friday so I will ask what you recommended and post back after with a few days menus.
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 21, 2012 21:45:21 GMT -5
thanks girlrocker! i dont mind that you posted here at all. I think i PM's you because I was embarrassed but I come here for support and information and guidance and if what i'm going thru can help others, then I should have posted it here initially. I actually have an appt with my Dr on Friday so I will ask what you recommended and post back after with a few days menus. You have absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about, we've all been through things that are sometimes hard to talk about openly. I'm glad you posted so you can get more feedback. Definitely let us know what your doctor says.
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Post by Ladytaz on Mar 21, 2012 22:31:39 GMT -5
I hesitated to post here because I had the opposite happen. I swear either I have a really screwed up body or my surgeon messed up but I have a revision to have less malabsorption. I had bad side effects so I had the surgery and I fully expected to lose slowly if at all. My surgeon even told me that I might not lose any weight so I was prepared. At that point I would have been happy not to keep gaining because I had been gaining rapidly before that. So, instead of what I expected the weight just fell of of me. I lost weight a lot faster then I did with my first surgery. I lost 80 lbs and reached my first goal at 6 1/2 months and 100 lbs (from the second surgery, 120 lbs from my highest weight) by 10 1/2 months. Then I tried to maintain and I kept losing, two months past my 1 year out mark. I was worried because I kept losing. I really don't know why that happened since I wasn't supposed to have much malabsorption but I think maybe he screwed up in the measuring or something. Or he really din't know what he was doing or something because I shouldn't be able to eat over 2000 calories a day and still weigh as little as I do and I didn't exercise hardly at all for the first year.
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Post by Paula on Mar 23, 2012 10:39:28 GMT -5
We may be rumored to lose slower than a virgin surgery, but I think it helps to put this into a bigger picture perspective. At least it does for me anyway. Even if I dont lose the same amount of weight that I did with my original RNY, any weight I lose with my revision is going to be weight I fully believe Id not be able to lose on my own without the revision. And every little bit is going to help me to be as healthy as I possibly can.
I think that with a revision, we go into it with a different mindset. Our previous surgery didnt work for us for whatever reason. For me, it was regaining half of the weight I lost with my surgery. So maybe it helps us to learn the new eating habits that we might not have paid much attention to the first time around as the weight was just melting off of us? I dont know for sure, but what I do know is that my mentality has me determined to do everything I can to remember the mistakes of the past and embrace the changes that I know I need to make.
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Post by goodkel on Mar 23, 2012 19:28:33 GMT -5
I like what Paula says. Fix your thinking.
I believe that our thoughts manifest themselves in our lives.
Sure revisions, particularly from VSG to DS may not be as efficient at taking off the pounds as a virgin DS. But, you are still arming yourself with the most powerful weapon against excess weight available out there.
Your weight WILL come off. Keep your mind on that and don't fret about the time frame.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2012 5:12:00 GMT -5
We may be rumored to lose slower than a virgin surgery, but I think it helps to put this into a bigger picture perspective. At least it does for me anyway. Even if I dont lose the same amount of weight that I did with my original RNY, any weight I lose with my revision is going to be weight I fully believe Id not be able to lose on my own without the revision. And every little bit is going to help me to be as healthy as I possibly can. I think that with a revision, we go into it with a different mindset. Our previous surgery didnt work for us for whatever reason. For me, it was regaining half of the weight I lost with my surgery. So maybe it helps us to learn the new eating habits that we might not have paid much attention to the first time around as the weight was just melting off of us? I dont know for sure, but what I do know is that my mentality has me determined to do everything I can to remember the mistakes of the past and embrace the changes that I know I need to make. YES! Thanks for the great advice and perspective Paula. I agree wholeheartedly. Hope you won't mind that I'm copying your post and adding to my journal. The reason I started this thread was to see if there's something medically concrete or conclusive about slower/less loss with revisions. I'm approaching 50 and, like Sharyl, my metabolism has proven to be nearly dead. Research leads me to believe the DS is my best chance of reviving it. Ladytaz, I'm glad you shared your experience. It's the sum total that makes up the wisdom of these boards. One of the most helpful things about us (vs. them) is the decided lack of rainbows and unicorns here. Hema, hope your 3 month appt gave you answers. Let us know? Like many of you, I believe that our thoughts are extraordinarily powerful. THAT part I get and practice. Since there's nothing medically concrete here so far about revisions losing slower or less (beyond the range of % that all surgeries have), I'm going to hold the belief that EVERYTHING I've been apprehensive to dream IS possible. Getting my aspirational WLS mojo back is a challenge. Thanks so much all of you for the input and good advice.
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adnerb
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RNY 2000 / DS Revision 2011
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Post by adnerb on Mar 24, 2012 11:43:21 GMT -5
Hi, I am a revision from RNY to DS. I feel like my weight loss has went really good. I have lost over 40# in a little over 3 months! I have less than 20# to get to my goal. My own personal thoughts on why some revisions have slower weight loss is due to initial type of surgery. I already had malabsorption and restriction with RNY, so it is expected that it would not be as dramatic as the first time around. Your eating will be different and that will be the biggest help in loosing. Eat lots of protein, very little carbs. My weight came off faster at the beginning of revision and I think that was due to liquid then soft diet. I believe my weight loss has been a little slower, but I feel great! I also notice that my weight loss is in spurts! I will not loose for a couple weeks and then will loose 3-4 pounds....so just know that it does work!! Best wishes girl! Brenda
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2012 15:59:59 GMT -5
Thank you for the update and the good wishes Brenda!!! It's soooo good to hear from everybody.
Congrats on your success. It's really great to get more RNY to DS folks together. I believe someday we will no longer be the rare birds of the WLS community.
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Post by smileyjamie on Apr 3, 2012 23:28:22 GMT -5
I too, am an RNY to DS revision. I have noticed that I also lose in spurts!!!!
I think that since we have already had one malabsorptive surgery, our body has already gotten "smart" on us. I DO BELIEVE that we WILL get there to our goal, weight loss wise, but just a little slower.
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Post by hema324 on May 7, 2012 18:35:18 GMT -5
Hey there ladies! Sorry for the delayed reply. LIFE! So, basically my doctor said that because I had a revision, PCOS and am a vegetarian, I am not losing as fast as I would if it were a virgin surgery. The vegetarian aspect because i average between 1000-1500 calories a day and a new DSer would only about 800.....which strikes me as really little given that approx half is not absorbed. being a veg is a religious thing and I avg between 90-100 grams of protien a day so I'm not going to stop being one. He basically told me to work it out with the nutritionist. so i am. My plan now is to increase my protien to 120g/day and exercise 30-45 min/day. I'm working on it and have noticed a difference. i also stopped weighing myself because it was just making me depressed. I'm actually alot happier because of that alone. so, day by day. one step at a time....literally.
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Post by Ladytaz on May 9, 2012 1:11:33 GMT -5
I also wanted to add that as I have gotten older the weight lose seemed a lot slower. With every diet I went on it took longer and longer to lose weight. The first time I ever tried to lose a significant amount of weight was when I was about 21. In four months I lost something like 80 lbs. Of course I regained it and with every diet attempt after that it took longer and was slower. With my first WLS I didn't reach my lowest weight until 2 years out and by 3 years out I was already regaining. That is why I am baffled at why my body decided to lose weight easier this time. Not complaining mind you but things really have changed.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 23:19:08 GMT -5
Having a bariatric surgery is the metabolic equivalent of being on a prolonged calorie-restrictive diet. As we have almost all experienced, each round of dieting dials down our metabolisms, because they are biochemically preceived as having been through a famine. Our metabolic set-point is reset lower after each deit. Our tendency after a deit is over is to not only regain, but to regain to a HIGHER weight, to ensure survival when the next famine comes.
The "rule" that revisions lose slower and lose less weight than virgin surgeries is an average. The results are pretty much a bell curve. Nobody can tell in advance where you are going to end up on the curve, and some of it is up to you. But the bell curve is going to peak at a higher BMI than for virgin surgeries.
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Post by justvonne on Jun 19, 2012 10:17:17 GMT -5
I am 1 year out from RNY to DS revision. I have lost 127 lbs. I thought I was a slow loser at first but I learned that my body likes to lose in spurts. I drop a large amount of weight in a couple weeks time, then easily plateau for 6-8 weeks. Then the cycle starts again.
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Post by goodkel on Jun 19, 2012 14:25:37 GMT -5
I hesitated to post here because I had the opposite happen. I swear either I have a really screwed up body or my surgeon messed up but I have a revision to have less malabsorption. I had bad side effects so I had the surgery and I fully expected to lose slowly if at all. My surgeon even told me that I might not lose any weight so I was prepared. At that point I would have been happy not to keep gaining because I had been gaining rapidly before that. So, instead of what I expected the weight just fell of of me. I lost weight a lot faster then I did with my first surgery. I lost 80 lbs and reached my first goal at 6 1/2 months and 100 lbs (from the second surgery, 120 lbs from my highest weight) by 10 1/2 months. Then I tried to maintain and I kept losing, two months past my 1 year out mark. I was worried because I kept losing. I really don't know why that happened since I wasn't supposed to have much malabsorption but I think maybe he screwed up in the measuring or something. Or he really din't know what he was doing or something because I shouldn't be able to eat over 2000 calories a day and still weigh as little as I do and I didn't exercise hardly at all for the first year. Were you revised to the DS? I ask because 2k calories a day is a little low for DSers who typically get in around 3,000 a day. Maybe you haven't been eating ENOUGH. I would recommend adding another 1000 in protein and see what that does for you. Protein is our miracle drug. Not losing enough? Add protein and it jump starts more loss. Losing too much? Add protein and it will slow things down. I can't say I understand it, but I've witnessed it often enough to know it is true.
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Post by Ladytaz on Jun 19, 2012 16:01:00 GMT -5
I hesitated to post here because I had the opposite happen. I swear either I have a really screwed up body or my surgeon messed up but I have a revision to have less malabsorption. I had bad side effects so I had the surgery and I fully expected to lose slowly if at all. My surgeon even told me that I might not lose any weight so I was prepared. At that point I would have been happy not to keep gaining because I had been gaining rapidly before that. So, instead of what I expected the weight just fell of of me. I lost weight a lot faster then I did with my first surgery. I lost 80 lbs and reached my first goal at 6 1/2 months and 100 lbs (from the second surgery, 120 lbs from my highest weight) by 10 1/2 months. Then I tried to maintain and I kept losing, two months past my 1 year out mark. I was worried because I kept losing. I really don't know why that happened since I wasn't supposed to have much malabsorption but I think maybe he screwed up in the measuring or something. Or he really din't know what he was doing or something because I shouldn't be able to eat over 2000 calories a day and still weigh as little as I do and I didn't exercise hardly at all for the first year. Were you revised to the DS? I ask because 2k calories a day is a little low for DSers who typically get in around 3,000 a day. Maybe you haven't been eating ENOUGH. I would recommend adding another 1000 in protein and see what that does for you. Protein is our miracle drug. Not losing enough? Add protein and it jump starts more loss. Losing too much? Add protein and it will slow things down. I can't say I understand it, but I've witnessed it often enough to know it is true. It's a long story but basically I had what I suppose was a DS in 2002 and I had a lot of issues along with regaining almost all the weight I lost back. Lack of pre op education and poor follow up pretty much sums it up. Anyway I had a revision, supposedly to lengthen my common channel from 100 cc to 200 cc. My weight loss has stopped and I have bounced back a few pounds so I am in a normal BMI range.
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Post by goodkel on Jun 19, 2012 19:45:21 GMT -5
Were you revised to the DS? I ask because 2k calories a day is a little low for DSers who typically get in around 3,000 a day. Maybe you haven't been eating ENOUGH. I would recommend adding another 1000 in protein and see what that does for you. Protein is our miracle drug. Not losing enough? Add protein and it jump starts more loss. Losing too much? Add protein and it will slow things down. I can't say I understand it, but I've witnessed it often enough to know it is true. It's a long story but basically I had what I suppose was a DS in 2002 and I had a lot of issues along with regaining almost all the weight I lost back. Lack of pre op education and poor follow up pretty much sums it up. Anyway I had a revision, supposedly to lengthen my common channel from 100 cc to 200 cc. My weight loss has stopped and I have bounced back a few pounds so I am in a normal BMI range. Well, good. I like happy endings. ;D
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Post by renfairewench on Dec 19, 2012 13:08:35 GMT -5
I will say this without giving all the background, but I was a revision and didn't lose weight slowly. Actually had it not been for the TPN and J-tube feeding/food I probabably would have been one of those people who lost too much weight, but because I was on enteral food for 11 out of 18 months that didn't happen. I only wish I could lose more, which I suppose I could if I would stop with the effing carbs. *sigh*
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Post by bboop on Dec 19, 2012 15:38:54 GMT -5
I'm 67 and I had my first DS at age 63, I think. I lost and then stopped like dead in the water. So I went to another surgeon and found out my stomach wasn't small it was an odd shape so I had a resleeve. I've now lost a total of 141 lbs...depending on the day I weigh. I'm not at goal but believe me, I've yo-yo dieted so much during my life I'm happy with the loss. I'm not a skinny minny, but I can live with where I am. Would I like to lose more, of course but if I don't then so be it. I still low carb it and eat lots of protein and I still have a small stomach...if that tells you anything. I think I'm at a permanent stuck point but I'm so much better than I was before. I was a heavy weight and very short.
Just do the best you can and the surgery will do the rest. I think you both will lose and I wouldn't worry too much. You are both young and I'm sure more active than I am. All of that plays into the weight loss factor in my opinion.
Best wishes to both of you for a speedy recovery.
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