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Post by nyuboi on Jun 24, 2012 21:02:58 GMT -5
First off, I LOVE your quote - have been saying it for years. Did you mean to say you DO feel different on the inside or you meant it as don't? Thanks for the kind words, I am starting to relax. I will probably wish I did it long ago. They are promising me a shorter common channel to be more conservative. Now I just have to accept that the guilty pleasures of life will never be the same again and I will need other channels. One thing at a time. It's a GO for Monday. I thought you said you'd been researching this for over a year. You don't even know the meaning of common channel length. This is an extremely foolhardy decision. I hope you survive your bullheadedness and blindness. This is out of control with you. I know the CC, I mis-typed shorter when I was half asleep and meant less aggressive and more conservative. I am familiar with the different methods or even taking flat numbers (100, 150, etc.) I have asked for no less than 150cm. If you really want to get technical, a 150cm common channel isnt even considered a BPD-DS, but rather a DS alone, according to Dr. Bessler. There are no studies that prove the long-term effectiveness is the same with a longer limb. I have long been discussing common channel length with several pro-DS surgeons long before Dr. Roslin gave his opinions on here about 75 being the minimums humans need, 100 being relatively safe, etc. From an insurance perspective, a full DS (BPD-DS) is , as per the national CPT code, defined as: Gastric restrictive procedure with partial gastrectomy, pylorus-preserving duodenoileostomy and ileoieostomy (50 to 100 cm common channel) to limit absorption (biliopancreatic diversion with duodenal switch). I brought my own diagrams in to the last three visits. Why do you insist on making me feel bad about my decision? It's tomorrow and you're still on the case. No matter what I tell you to assure you I am familiar with something, you look for a way to insist I am not. I am supposed to be coming on here for support. I looked forward to coming on here from the hospital on my iphone and telling everyone I'm okay and you are making my afraid to come on any of these threads. It was one thing on the other thread, but now it followed to the main one here I sent my original post on. :/ Paul
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Post by chicarita on Jun 24, 2012 22:00:17 GMT -5
Paul, understand it is simply because we are concerned for you and your health. It's really easy to get lured by the thin life that has alluded us all prior to surgery. So much so, that you can make a bad decision, or a good decision for the wrong reasons.
I hope your surgery went well and you are recovering comfortably. Let us know...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 22:18:03 GMT -5
You know what Paul? You're completely missing the point. People have been trying to help you. It's not what you want to hear perhaps, but people have given of themselves to try and give you the benefit of experience. Your response has been pretty dismissive, imperious and obnoxious.
Frankly I find you to be one of those people, so far, who takes and takes and takes, giving nothing and ignoring the generosity of strangers with actual real-life experience at something you haven't yet experienced, who are taking the time to read your mammoth posts in an effort to HELP you. Do you see that? Hell no. You bitch. You whine. You post basic questions and trivial concerns and then you post I'm-so-smart-look-at-what-I-know replies. Take some responsibility for the words that flow from your keyboard if you want a different response here.
People are trying to help you. It's still not too late to really listen. Doubt you will but hope for your sake that you do.
You're so likely to become an object lesson in don't-have-a-DS-if... Does anyone here want that experience for you? Of course not. Question is really can YOU get over yourself enough to be a success story? I certainly hope so but I'm not betting on it.
And finally, if you decide to participate here, try remembering that this place doesn't exist solely for your entertainment and use. Try, for instance, being a valuable member of this community. There's a lot of important help to be had here. I hope you take a hard look at your own participation here and turn this around. It's redeemable but not unless you start being the change you want to see.
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 0:04:29 GMT -5
I was only referring to EN telling me I did not know what a common channel length was.
As for not being a valuable member of the community and contributing, I explained what had been shared with me by other surgeons. I explained the BPD component of BPD/DS and what other surgeons said. I took a post and showed it to Dr. Roslin's team and shared the feedback so people did not fear liver damage. I shared the impact of ADD medications which are absorbed in small intestine versus stomach and which time-release can still be considered. I congraulated people on their specific stories and quoted much, including signatures showing their battle. I appreciate everyones concerns, it was just one user repeatedly telling me im a train wreck who is "fucked," with a substance abuse problem who knew nothing about the DS. One person. I never objected to the legitimate concerns of anyone else, and now you are telling me I have been using everyone. I am sorry if that was the case.
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 0:07:27 GMT -5
Paul, understand it is simply because we are concerned for you and your health. It's really easy to get lured by the thin life that has alluded us all prior to surgery. So much so, that you can make a bad decision, or a good decision for the wrong reasons. I hope your surgery went well and you are recovering comfortably. Let us know... You could say that again. I have had to search myself and do a lot of therapy to think about that. It is all too easy to get lured by the thin life fantasies and let that bleed into the decisions. The reality is I know im on my way out of the LGBT scene and all and that im thinking also about when I have a family, etc., avoiding the relapse of the sleep apena and other co-morbidites and avoiding getting back to 248 again and then some. Thank you for reminding me of that though. It's true and it is easy to be blinded by such. Those damn thin people. ;-) Just kidding. Thank you for the good wishes, Paul
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 0:09:09 GMT -5
I thought you said you'd been researching this for over a year. You don't even know the meaning of common channel length. This is an extremely foolhardy decision. I hope you survive your bullheadedness and blindness. This is out of control with you. I know the CC, I mis-typed shorter when I was half asleep and meant less aggressive and more conservative. I am familiar with the different methods or even taking flat numbers (100, 150, etc.) I have asked for no less than 150cm. If you really want to get technical, a 150cm common channel isnt even considered a BPD-DS, but rather a DS alone, according to Dr. Bessler. There are no studies that prove the long-term effectiveness is the same with a longer limb. I have long been discussing common channel length with several pro-DS surgeons long before Dr. Roslin gave his opinions on here about 75 being the minimums humans need, 100 being relatively safe, etc. From an insurance perspective, a full DS (BPD-DS) is , as per the national CPT code, defined as: Gastric restrictive procedure with partial gastrectomy, pylorus-preserving duodenoileostomy and ileoieostomy (50 to 100 cm common channel) to limit absorption (biliopancreatic diversion with duodenal switch). I brought my own diagrams in to the last three visits. Why do you insist on making me feel bad about my decision? It's tomorrow and you're still on the case. No matter what I tell you to assure you I am familiar with something, you look for a way to insist I am not. I am supposed to be coming on here for support. I looked forward to coming on here from the hospital on my iphone and telling everyone I'm okay and you are making my afraid to come on any of these threads. It was one thing on the other thread, but now it followed to the main one here I sent my original post on. :/ Paul I'm on your case because I've watched people like you completely fuck themselves with similar decisions for a lot of years now. I know the way this story will probably end and I'm trying to change that. But hey, you're an adult and are free to fuck up the only body you're ever going to have.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 0:13:19 GMT -5
I was only referring to EN telling me I did not know what a common channel length was. As for not being a valuable member of the community and contributing, I explained what had been shared with me by other surgeons. I explained the BPD component of BPD/DS and what other surgeons said. I took a post and showed it to Dr. Roslin's team and shared the feedback so people did not fear liver damage. I shared the impact of ADD medications which are absorbed in small intestine versus stomach and which time-release can still be considered. I congraulated people on their specific stories and quoted much, including signatures showing their battle. I appreciate everyones concerns, it was just one user repeatedly telling me im a train wreck who is "fucked," with a substance abuse problem who knew nothing about the DS. One person. I never objected to the legitimate concerns of anyone else, and now you are telling me I have been using everyone. I am sorry if that was the case. Honeybuns, I'm far from the only one who has told you that you are out of your mind for doing this to yourself AND that you are not going to get what you think you're going to get out of it. But that's okay, I'm used to being people's lightning rod. Yeah, you're a taker and a user. Or to be more exact. that's how you've been acting here and on other forums. Oh, and don't forget that people talk elsewhere, too. We're all wasting time on you in the hope that you will show a smidgen of sense between now and tomorrow morning. Get the crap band out, your hernia repaired and a gastric sleeve. Then get your ass into therapy. THAT is what will help.
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 0:49:47 GMT -5
Team DS,
I know I had originally given you an unusually unacceptable long post. I am very very grateful for all who responded, including those who private messaged me to say sorry that two people were giving me a hard time. When I gave my long post, some people really touched me with their responses and hit it on the money, and others gave me a lot of food for thought. There was no negativity in any of my original threads. So where did it change? One person, who meant well, told me since the post was long I should make a list of direct questions. I did so, and started three other threads. I knew the “doctor” answers to much of such, but I was curious for peoples feedback. Specifically that in specific populations – those suffering with ADD who have to take strong stimulant medicine on the stomach, or LGBT sex issues, etc. Your responses have been great, especially the private ones where you shared your stories with me no matter how personal.
Just to be clear, I didn’t wake up one morning and say “Oh I’ll have a DS this month.” I did not know of it as an option, as most people when they go to a non-DS surgeon, when I had lap-band in 2007. I found out about it from Dr. Roslin, when I started seeing him in 2009 when he told me he would have originally done a different procedure on me had I went to him. From that time my friend (who had surgery with him later) and myself did extensive research. I had meetings with him, his partner, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, etc. My existing bariatric surgeon even made great effort to talk to two of these surgeons and expand his knowledge, and was even supportive in the idea of getting surgery beyond what their practice was familiar or comfortable with. All of these surgeons shared their records. I attained my Dr. Roslin records last week when signing consent forms, and see in his dications he wrote: “He is very, very well informed.” I often went in there with a notepad of pre-written pages and pages of questions, including questions regarding stuff he had said on this forum and in publications. I don’t say this to act like I am some know it all. When I explain I brought in tons of diagrams of the different procedures, I am doing so to alleviate the concern by that one person that I did not know what a bypass was or a common channel. In my records with him I saw a detailed letter sent to him by Dr. Inabnet (from your vetted list) where he said to Dr. Roslin in his full evaluation “Patient’s pre-existing knowledge of weight loss surgery is excellent.” I am NOT saying this to boast, I am saying this because one person assumed from my general list of questions that I knew nothing about the DS. I originally did not share any of that and only brought it up when one person said I did not know what a common channel length was, told me I was a “train wreck waiting to happen” on one thread and that I hopefully survive my “bullheadedness and blindness.” The two of three other people that replied to this persons threads did so in a nicer way and I was open to the feedback. It was hard to listen to someone calling me names and attacking me for making more than one thread or following their strong of opinion of me on thread onto the original where I had loving support of all of you. This original thread is where I felt safe to come to tell everyone I’m off and that I look forward to giving updates from my iPhone App in the hospital and now I feel afraid to come on here. The same one person went on to say I did not realize medication absorption could be impacted (which I previously explained I knew, was trying to just get ADD feedback), and that I have a substance abuse problem with alcohol. Again, let me stress that I do NOT drink regularly. I am talking about the 2-3 times over the summer I go out to Fire Island. I am not saying I get plastered – I was trying to get general feedback on peoples experiences. I have never been drunk once in my life or ever gotten sick from drinking too much. I have never done a recreational drug or even tried pot my entire college days. I was a prude, and food was my drug. I am not stupid and did not expect to me loading up on the carbs of alcohol after surgery to hinder my weight loss or think I would be drinking bottles of Tequila.
I am sorry if I seemed unappreciative for the feedback of anyone else. This is not the case. You were great to me -- some of you offering to talk to me on the phone and share such personal stuff. I am very grateful.
I realize when I posted those general questions it may have given the wrong idea and sparked concern. As I wrote in my first post, my posing of the questions to all of you was long over-due and I should have interacted with actual patients prior rather than just basing it on medical articles and doctors, etc. That is where I went wrong and should have spoke to some of you about your specific experiences prior.
As for the original thread where everyone gave great feedback on the different surgical options and their suggestion for me, here is the summary:
RNY: I agree no RNY.
SLEEVE: Unfortunately, the sleeve is NOT an option and every single doctor but one did not want to do such on me. Because of my esophageal problems from the band now, the sleeve could pose some problems. While it does seem like a stepping stone towards DS, Dr. Roslin’s office explained that with a sleeve more of the stomach is removed to achieve weight loss because of no malabsorption component. When doing the DS, they leave a little more stomach in-tact. The sleeve alone would add more pressure that would concern surgeons from my current esophageal condition and my GERD history. (Yes, I know RNY is better for that one topic…) As I said in my original post, I am developing a motility disorder from the lap-band of pseudoachalasia. The dictation says “he required conversion to another bariatric procedure or else he will massively regain weight” with a suggestion of preserving the pyloric valve and suggestion a DS. :/
THE DECISION: Remove the lap band, repair the hiatal hernia, and do a conservative DS with a longer common channel of 150-175. Since I am going under later today, I hope I will have your best wishes, be in your prayers and thoughts, and your support upon my return.
Again I am sorry if I gave the wrong idea about my knowledge of the DS with my long general questions, if I offended anyone, or I did not seem appreciative. I promise that is not the case. I meant all the congrats I gave on the weight loss to specific individuals in my replies when I said they should be very proud. We are all on the same team here.
Well my bags are packed… I’m leaving on a jet plane…
Your friend, Paul
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 1:12:39 GMT -5
I was only referring to EN telling me I did not know what a common channel length was. As for not being a valuable member of the community and contributing, I explained what had been shared with me by other surgeons. I explained the BPD component of BPD/DS and what other surgeons said. I took a post and showed it to Dr. Roslin's team and shared the feedback so people did not fear liver damage. I shared the impact of ADD medications which are absorbed in small intestine versus stomach and which time-release can still be considered. I congraulated people on their specific stories and quoted much, including signatures showing their battle. I appreciate everyones concerns, it was just one user repeatedly telling me im a train wreck who is "fucked," with a substance abuse problem who knew nothing about the DS. One person. I never objected to the legitimate concerns of anyone else, and now you are telling me I have been using everyone. I am sorry if that was the case. Honeybuns, Thats the nicest thing you have said to me. Say it again. jk Paul
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 1:15:37 GMT -5
I PMed you EN.
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Post by anniemck13 on Jun 25, 2012 1:22:41 GMT -5
Good Luck Paul!!!
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Post by kyal on Jun 25, 2012 1:26:29 GMT -5
Ok Enough.
nyuboi has been given all the information he asked for and more so now its time for him to make his decision. He needs to live with it, not us. We will be here to support if need be.
Fighting back and forth isn't productive and it looks ugly. He asked, we answered, we can't make the horse drink unless it wants too.
Looks like his leaning towards a conservative DS which isn't a bad thing. Its not an RNY which is a lot harder to pick up the pieces after.
Put it to bed.
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 1:28:05 GMT -5
Keep in mind, before your first post, many people did say to get DS and not look back.
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 1:28:55 GMT -5
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Post by alaja957 on Jun 25, 2012 2:42:20 GMT -5
Exalt kyal, well said.
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Post by Leonie on Jun 25, 2012 3:02:41 GMT -5
I hope your surgery has gone very well. May the pain meds work, may you have no nausea or complications. Enjoy this ride, even if it is a bit scary, there is something precious in every day.
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Post by shann_ds on Jun 25, 2012 7:21:27 GMT -5
I hope things go smoothly and you're very happy with your decision, Paul. Here's to a long healthy future!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 11:57:45 GMT -5
Team DS, I know I had originally given you an unusually unacceptable long post. I am very very grateful for all who responded, including those who private messaged me to say sorry that two people were giving me a hard time. When I gave my long post, some people really touched me with their responses and hit it on the money, and others gave me a lot of food for thought. There was no negativity in any of my original threads. So where did it change? One person, who meant well, told me since the post was long I should make a list of direct questions. I did so, and started three other threads. I knew the “doctor” answers to much of such, but I was curious for peoples feedback. Specifically that in specific populations – those suffering with ADD who have to take strong stimulant medicine on the stomach, or LGBT sex issues, etc. Your responses have been great, especially the private ones where you shared your stories with me no matter how personal. Just to be clear, I didn’t wake up one morning and say “Oh I’ll have a DS this month.” I did not know of it as an option, as most people when they go to a non-DS surgeon, when I had lap-band in 2007. I found out about it from Dr. Roslin, when I started seeing him in 2009 when he told me he would have originally done a different procedure on me had I went to him. From that time my friend (who had surgery with him later) and myself did extensive research. I had meetings with him, his partner, Columbia, Mt. Sinai, etc. My existing bariatric surgeon even made great effort to talk to two of these surgeons and expand his knowledge, and was even supportive in the idea of getting surgery beyond what their practice was familiar or comfortable with. All of these surgeons shared their records. I attained my Dr. Roslin records last week when signing consent forms, and see in his dications he wrote: “He is very, very well informed.” I often went in there with a notepad of pre-written pages and pages of questions, including questions regarding stuff he had said on this forum and in publications. I don’t say this to act like I am some know it all. When I explain I brought in tons of diagrams of the different procedures, I am doing so to alleviate the concern by that one person that I did not know what a bypass was or a common channel. In my records with him I saw a detailed letter sent to him by Dr. Inabnet (from your vetted list) where he said to Dr. Roslin in his full evaluation “Patient’s pre-existing knowledge of weight loss surgery is excellent.” I am NOT saying this to boast, I am saying this because one person assumed from my general list of questions that I knew nothing about the DS. I originally did not share any of that and only brought it up when one person said I did not know what a common channel length was, told me I was a “train wreck waiting to happen” on one thread and that I hopefully survive my “bullheadedness and blindness.” The two of three other people that replied to this persons threads did so in a nicer way and I was open to the feedback. It was hard to listen to someone calling me names and attacking me for making more than one thread or following their strong of opinion of me on thread onto the original where I had loving support of all of you. This original thread is where I felt safe to come to tell everyone I’m off and that I look forward to giving updates from my iPhone App in the hospital and now I feel afraid to come on here. The same one person went on to say I did not realize medication absorption could be impacted (which I previously explained I knew, was trying to just get ADD feedback), and that I have a substance abuse problem with alcohol. Again, let me stress that I do NOT drink regularly. I am talking about the 2-3 times over the summer I go out to Fire Island. I am not saying I get plastered – I was trying to get general feedback on peoples experiences. I have never been drunk once in my life or ever gotten sick from drinking too much. I have never done a recreational drug or even tried pot my entire college days. I was a prude, and food was my drug. I am not stupid and did not expect to me loading up on the carbs of alcohol after surgery to hinder my weight loss or think I would be drinking bottles of Tequila. I am sorry if I seemed unappreciative for the feedback of anyone else. This is not the case. You were great to me -- some of you offering to talk to me on the phone and share such personal stuff. I am very grateful. I realize when I posted those general questions it may have given the wrong idea and sparked concern. As I wrote in my first post, my posing of the questions to all of you was long over-due and I should have interacted with actual patients prior rather than just basing it on medical articles and doctors, etc. That is where I went wrong and should have spoke to some of you about your specific experiences prior. As for the original thread where everyone gave great feedback on the different surgical options and their suggestion for me, here is the summary: RNY: I agree no RNY. SLEEVE: Unfortunately, the sleeve is NOT an option and every single doctor but one did not want to do such on me. Because of my esophageal problems from the band now, the sleeve could pose some problems. While it does seem like a stepping stone towards DS, Dr. Roslin’s office explained that with a sleeve more of the stomach is removed to achieve weight loss because of no malabsorption component. When doing the DS, they leave a little more stomach in-tact. The sleeve alone would add more pressure that would concern surgeons from my current esophageal condition and my GERD history. (Yes, I know RNY is better for that one topic…) As I said in my original post, I am developing a motility disorder from the lap-band of pseudoachalasia. The dictation says “he required conversion to another bariatric procedure or else he will massively regain weight” with a suggestion of preserving the pyloric valve and suggestion a DS. :/ THE DECISION: Remove the lap band, repair the hiatal hernia, and do a conservative DS with a longer common channel of 150-175. Since I am going under later today, I hope I will have your best wishes, be in your prayers and thoughts, and your support upon my return. Again I am sorry if I gave the wrong idea about my knowledge of the DS with my long general questions, if I offended anyone, or I did not seem appreciative. I promise that is not the case. I meant all the congrats I gave on the weight loss to specific individuals in my replies when I said they should be very proud. We are all on the same team here. Well my bags are packed… I’m leaving on a jet plane… Your friend, Paul tl;dr
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 12:00:46 GMT -5
Yes, at one in the morning to beg for a phone call. Why didn't you take up Joanne's offer of phone contact? She's local to you. The line about people PMing you to apologize for the people giving you a hard time is older than the hills. They are unlikely to be the ones to have the knowledge and fortitude to help you with the problems you're going to encounter. But yeah, I'll talk to you on the phone when you're clear headed enough to have a conversation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 12:02:32 GMT -5
Ok Enough. nyuboi has been given all the information he asked for and more so now its time for him to make his decision. He needs to live with it, not us. We will be here to support if need be. Fighting back and forth isn't productive and it looks ugly. He asked, we answered, we can't make the horse drink unless it wants too. Looks like his leaning towards a conservative DS which isn't a bad thing. Its not an RNY which is a lot harder to pick up the pieces after. Put it to bed. modified at Kelly's request to say this: Don't try to nanny me. EVER.
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 12:26:14 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
Well I have good news and bad -- I think. I CANCELED THE SURGERY EARLY THIS MORNING (I was scheduled for 1:30pm). I did this after thinking about some of the concerns expressed here. I figured, worse case scenario, I choose a new date in 2 to 3 months after I am 110% positive. I thought once organs are removed (gallbladder, 70% of stomach, etc.) that that's it... One person said something nicely weeks ago that stuck with me about being 100% sure when getting rolled into the OR with no doubts. I was advised to post-pone the band removal 1-2 months (being very gentle on my diet in the mean time to prevent complications from getting much worse) because if I took only the band out today, insurance would not cover another bariatric surgery in the future. That is, they were allowing the conversion because of the medical complications requiring the band removal at the same time...
So, I figured I would post-pone and then if I decide not to, just get the band out, and if I remain wanting the DS and am 100% sure then do both at the same -- not to be blind-sided by short-term wants and focus on the big pictures on what's another couple of months, etc. I'm sure some of you will agree I did the right thing. Especially my favorite fan who messaged me saying to come to my senses this morning... ;-)
NOW, FOR THE BAD NEWS: Dr. Roslin called me thirty minutes ago really pissed off. I don't blame him. He said "Paul, I'm sorry, but it is very disrespectful to cancel on the day of surgery and now I am no longer willing to handle your care. There are many other good doctors in the city and you will have to use someone else." I explained I still had more questions, was concerned because I never had a final consult with him to ask some (last time I had seen him was when I was diagnosed with the esohpagul problem) and that my appointment for last week with him was canceled by him. He said "Doesn't matter, you had spoken to associates of mine, been on message boards, etc." I said family memebrs and message board members expressed concerns that I am not ready and not fully educated, etc. He said:
"Nothing could be further from the truth. You know more than 99% of bariatric patients -- you know the studies, you know who ran them, you came in with diagrams and pages of questions. You met with the city's best surgeons - I know you saw Marc Bessler at Columbia, and Dr. Inabnet at Mt. Sinai, etc. I was next to Dr. Bessler at the bariatric conference when you spoke to him last week on the phone. They had all called me concerned about doing a DS on you over RNY. I told you Paul that 99% of surgeons would think DS is too extreme for you given your weight and that RNY would be more appropriate - you knew this - and I still feel it is the best for you, that doing a light sleeve with a conservatice intestinal bypass would have been fine. I think you should do DS still. You knew every single aspect of the DS someone could know and asked the other surgeons detailed questions that you would have asked me at the final consult anyway, and you can't go by a negative experience on a message board - that is not medical facts and all experiences are individualized - again, i was going to be very conservative on you and you can't compare concerns to a mordbidly obese patient who had a larger bypass."
I apologized over and over, and explained even if he was no longer willing to do additional bariatric on me, I wanted him to be the one to take the band out - since theres complex issues involving scar tissue, and laying the stomach out. Plus my friend had a band with him where he left no scars and my band has stuff like that, so im worried a local hospital with leave me with scars and all taking it out (I didn't say this to him). He said he was not willing to remove the band on me either and said "Im sorry Paul I just can't risk doing this dance again, you will probably never be sure if you post-poned once you might do it again and I can't take that risk, my time is too valuable." He told me to see one of the other top surgeons who were willing to do RNY and/or DS. The problem is, they don't take my insurance. I paid out of pocket for those consults. Dr. Roslin takes more plans than any of them.
I'm not the type to lie, but my family said I was stupid for telling them I was post-poning for the reasons I did and that I should have said I had an emergency. I now will be black-listed at Lenox Hill and lose the surgeon who does more DS's than anyone in the area. Plus, his office somehow (in their ways) got the DS approved for me with a 31 BMI in only two business days. I am worried this will not happen.
If I had known he was going to go off, I would have went in and gotten it out of fear of pissing him off, which would have been the WRONG reason to, so it's probably a good thing I canceled with the patient coordinator.
I understand his position and know I caused it. I don't blame him after messing up his afternoon when I was the third surgery scheduled. But I couldn't go through with surgery out of fear of upsetting a surgeon, right? Did I do the right thing by post-poining this morning like many of you said to do?
I hope now if ever I pause for a while, and if I decide to go through with DS, I will be able to find someone who is good and willing to do it on a low BMI. :-( I guess theres others out there and I can always leave NY if I need a in-network person.
I'm depressed. I feel like I let everyone down including you guys. Thank you for the good wishes for today, but it remains a no go. Guess I might as well eat something since I haven't had solid food in days and any water or anything since midnight. The surgery was going to begin in five minutes -- I lost the procedure and the surgeon. Hopefully the first one I can get back with someone else if I decide at the end of this summer I am 100% still want to go through with it?
Paul
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 12:29:10 GMT -5
Yes, at one in the morning to beg for a phone call. Why didn't you take up Joanne's offer of phone contact? She's local to you. The line about people PMing you to apologize for the people giving you a hard time is older than the hills. They are unlikely to be the ones to have the knowledge and fortitude to help you with the problems you're going to encounter. But yeah, I'll talk to you on the phone when you're clear headed enough to have a conversation. I wanted to understand where you were coming from and get somewhere with it instead of airing dirty laundry on the public forums. And I was only messaging you as you were posting here, i didnt choose 1 in the morning out of nowhere - you were online when I PMed you. There's no winning. I ask you to stop and you continue on here. I ask to make it private and you bring it back to public. Others ask to stop and you drop the f bomb on them. Now I post-poned like you told me to, and you will still proably go off on me and make me feel bad about it. Please just stop. Please. Paul
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Post by Joanne on Jun 25, 2012 12:41:12 GMT -5
Paul,
Take a deep breath here. You weren't sure about your surgery and you cancelled. I'm sure you inconvenienced Dr Roslin. A surgeon's time and surgery schedule is their lifeblood. But the bottom line is that if you weren't sure about the surgery then you should have cancelled. Yes, you should have handled this better, but what's done is done.
I think what's going on is that you're using the surgeons for an emotional outlet and therapy, and not surgical consult. There is a difference. Surgeons can give you the facts, they can give you their opinions, they can give you their time on the OR table. But what they're not equipped to do is to walk you through all the emotions of what you should do once you have the info. My opinion is that you crossed that line with more than one surgeon (shown also by the fact that they were communicating about you).
I don't know at this point what any surgeon can tell you, you can't continue to poll them until you hear whatever it is you want to hear. You have the knowledge. I think you need to take some time and do some soul searching, and perhaps some therapy, to come to grips with this. I'm saying this in a respectful way because I know this is distressing to you.
Once you get your head around this and decide what you want, I think you might be able to re-approach Dr Roslin and ask him to take your case. But I would not do that until you are sure what you want, and ready to use him as a surgeon and not a therapist.
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 12:42:13 GMT -5
Ok Enough. nyuboi has been given all the information he asked for and more so now its time for him to make his decision. He needs to live with it, not us. We will be here to support if need be. Fighting back and forth isn't productive and it looks ugly. He asked, we answered, we can't make the horse drink unless it wants too. Looks like his leaning towards a conservative DS which isn't a bad thing. Its not an RNY which is a lot harder to pick up the pieces after. Put it to bed. Go fuck yourself. What did he do?!?!? Im sorry EN for everything. Please just let it be, ok?
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 12:50:01 GMT -5
Surgeons can give you the facts, they can give you their opinions, they can give you their time on the OR table. But what they're not equipped to do is to walk you through all the emotions of what you should do once you have the info. My opinion is that you crossed that line with more than one surgeon (shown also by the fact that they were communicating about you). Understood. The main reason my existing lap-band surgeon sent me to the 3rd was because the 1st and 2nd were completely conflicting: columbia told me DS would be bad for my severe GERD and to do RNY. Roslin said do DS that it wouldnt matter, but then I saw his response to the questions on here where he wrote he may consider advising a patient to do RNY over DS if they had extreme GERD or esoph. cancer, so i became concerned and went to #3. It's clear even going to pro-DS surgeons most prefer RNY on me. In any event, like you said, I have the facts and must make the decision. Paul
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 12:51:11 GMT -5
Yes, at one in the morning to beg for a phone call. Why didn't you take up Joanne's offer of phone contact? She's local to you. The line about people PMing you to apologize for the people giving you a hard time is older than the hills. They are unlikely to be the ones to have the knowledge and fortitude to help you with the problems you're going to encounter. But yeah, I'll talk to you on the phone when you're clear headed enough to have a conversation. I wanted to understand where you were coming from and get somewhere with it instead of airing dirty laundry on the public forums. And I was only messaging you as you were posting here, i didnt choose 1 in the morning out of nowhere - you were online when I PMed you. There's no winning. I ask you to stop and you continue on here. I ask to make it private and you bring it back to public. Others ask to stop and you drop the f bomb on them. Now I post-poned like you told me to, and you will still proably go off on me and make me feel bad about it. Please just stop. Please. Paul Nope, I APPLAUD YOU HUGELY for having the guts to postpone!! This was the intelligent thing to do at this point. I'm sorry you had to endure that kind of phone call from Dr. Roslin and I can well imagine that you are distraught right now. That really sucks . He's a marvelous doc and I'm told he's a fine human being. I don't like that he let his temper out on you like that. Perhaps he will be more amenable to a more adult and professional conversation later. Here's the thing: This is the only body and the only life you will ever have. So obviously the single most important thing you can do is to protect it and to hell with anyone who gets pissed off at that. It's entirely possible that if we had had all these exchanges face to face, the impression would have been very different than the one you have made here in writing. However, the facts of the case would still be the same: A DS with a BMI of 31 is far outside the realm of standard of care. You are the type of patient who would be more appropriately served with a VSG revision, and then ONLY because you are a lap band revision. You would not be appropriately served as a virgin WLS patient at all at this weight. That is the current standard of care. It is extremely puzzling that your insurance would jump on board in no time flat with a plan that is so far outside of those parameters. (That is in NO WAY intended to imply anything inappropriate on the part of anyone in Dr. Roslin's practice. It's a head scratcher for me about your insurance.) Then there are all of these red flags in your posts that indicate such mental/emotional uproar and turmoil around your weight, your eating and your expectations about what WLS would do for you life, both positive and negative. You went into this surgery decision too fast. You did the right thing and slammed on the brakes. That was very hard to do and I applaud you for doing it. Now go do something very nice for yourself, spend some time with something fun and distracting, get some rest, and when you're ready, there are lots of people here, including me, willing to help you navigate your decisions afresh and in a thoughtful manner. There are even other DS surgeons to be had, should that option come up again later.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 13:04:20 GMT -5
What did he do?!?!? Im sorry EN for everything. Please just let it be, ok? Stop apologizing to me, you don't owe me any apologies. My one and only goal was to get you to do EXACTLY what you've done. You have done the right thing and you get huge huge huge kudoes and Brownie points and champagne and chocolate for that. (Or beer or a shot, whatever you prefer.) That comment was addressed to kyal, not to you, and it's about something that bugs me. That's my stuff not yours. Try to not take on anything that is not addressed to you, okay? You don't need the baggage. Deep breaths. Who can you spend some time with today in person who will be a healthy support? Could you call your therapist?
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Post by Joanne on Jun 25, 2012 13:11:33 GMT -5
Surgeons can give you the facts, they can give you their opinions, they can give you their time on the OR table. But what they're not equipped to do is to walk you through all the emotions of what you should do once you have the info. My opinion is that you crossed that line with more than one surgeon (shown also by the fact that they were communicating about you). Understood. The main reason my existing lap-band surgeon sent me to the 3rd was because the 1st and 2nd were completely conflicting: columbia told me DS would be bad for my severe GERD and to do RNY. Roslin said do DS that it wouldnt matter, but then I saw his response to the questions on here where he wrote he may consider advising a patient to do RNY over DS if they had extreme GERD or esoph. cancer, so i became concerned and went to #3. It's clear even going to pro-DS surgeons most prefer RNY on me. In any event, like you said, I have the facts and must make the decision. Paul The problem is that medicine isn't so cut and dry. There are facts, and there are opinions. There is not a 100% black and white protocol standard of care for things. Unfortunately in cases like this it does come down to weighing all the options and making the best decision for you. I agree with what EN said. Take a step back. Take a break and think about this. So many people (also me included) can help talk you through this and give you some perspective. Don't feel bad about canceling your surgery. I work with hospitals and doctors for a living, so I know what it means to them. My impression is that Dr Roslin is probably upset with the last minute cancellation and the way it was handled, but not the fact that you opted out. So again, it could have been handled better but this is your body and what's done is done. Now breathe deeply, regroup. You will get through this.
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Post by nyuboi on Jun 25, 2012 14:57:02 GMT -5
Deep breaths. Who can you spend some time with today in person who will be a healthy support? Could you call your therapist? Heading out to eat (how ironic) with friends on Long Island now who were going to be at Lenox Hill from now till 6:30 waiting for my surgery to end. Will still take it easy cause of the crapband of course. I understand you meant well and that you had my best interest at heart. Thank you. I'll probably second-guess myself all day or for days, but at least I know in the future if I end up getting it I will have no reservations when being rolled into the OR. Paul
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Post by chicarita on Jun 25, 2012 16:33:36 GMT -5
I cannot tell you how relieved I was to read that you postponed. I'm a little disappointed in Dr? Roslin's response, but I get it. He had OR time scheduled and it's not like he could just slide another patient in.
But regardless, I virtually exalt you for the great decision you made. It was absolutely positively the right thing and it took huge brass ones to make it. Good for you.
NOW......What is your insurance? Will they let you travel? I would speak to someone else about the sleeve to be 100% sure it's not right for you. I honestly suspect it would be fine but not being a doctor, it's hard to say. Look at all your options, read, learn, marinate and then choose your surgery. THEN choose your doctor.
Sorry you have to live with this crappy band but know its short term. Still in my prayers!
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