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Post by pinklyfe on Feb 14, 2012 2:13:40 GMT -5
I have to take responsibility and I do. Im taking responsibilty to have empty caloric cal. food out of my house. Having that type of food in the house is challenging. They are located in the pantry at eye level. I go to the pantry several times a day. I dont go and buy snacks of this type on my own. I don't go for fast food or the drive thru. I don't drink soda and I always pack my own healthy breakfast, lunch and dinner for work. I work 7-7pm. Would a recovering alcoholic have bottles of alcohol in their house? I think not. It would be a dry house. I'm a carboholic. They are my trigger foods. I'm going to change my lifestyle and reboot my eating habits. From what I hear i have 3-6 mo after VSG. I'm still going to make the junk food disappear. Every nutrition expert ive seen makes a clean sweep from the fridge and pantry. There must be a good reason why they do this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 9:01:28 GMT -5
I have to take responsibility and I do. Im taking responsibilty to have empty caloric cal. food out of my house. Having that type of food in the house is challenging. They are located in the pantry at eye level. I go to the pantry several times a day. I dont go and buy snacks of this type on my own. I don't go for fast food or the drive thru. I don't drink soda and I always pack my own healthy breakfast, lunch and dinner for work. I work 7-7pm. Would a recovering alcoholic have bottles of alcohol in their house? I think not. It would be a dry house. I'm a carboholic. They are my trigger foods. I'm going to change my lifestyle and reboot my eating habits. From what I hear i have 3-6 mo after VSG. I'm still going to make the junk food disappear. Every nutrition expert ive seen makes a clean sweep from the fridge and pantry. There must be a good reason why they do this. And what are you going to do if your husband doesn't cooperate?
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Post by mark540 on Feb 14, 2012 10:14:51 GMT -5
Just yesterday I threw out an entire cheesecake my wife brought home because i did not like the taste and it was not worth the aggravation of staring at it every day. I can eat cheesecake but at a price, I chose not to have this around because it's not worth the problems associated with it and it just wasn't worth it. Wife wasn't too happy but i give in on other foods in the house- she can give in once in a while too. It's a give and take on the bad foods in the house. Sometimes you can toss things, sometimes you need to keep things around for the others.
People seem to feel threatened in some way as we lose weight. They will say they're not but they put forth behaviors that are deigned to trip us up at times. My wife's favorite is to try to feed me carbs she knows I won't eat. I have a volunteer function she has planned and I know it will be bagels, donuts, and muffins for breakfast, pizza for lunch and probably pizza for dinner. These are the days that piss me off. I'll bring proteins along with me and she will look hurt because I don't want what she cooked or ordered. It seems to be ingrained in her to try to do what she thinks is right but knows it's wrong.
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Post by reinventingangela on Feb 14, 2012 11:39:15 GMT -5
How about a cabinet in your kitchen dedicated specifically to the wife or the hubbys "junk"? You could even install a combination lock on that cabinet if you are really worried about being tempted. That way, you dont have access but your other half doesnt feel resentment that they cant bring treats they enjoy into the house...
Thats what I would do anyway...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 15:20:40 GMT -5
I see real problems with externalizing one's locus of control here. If I have to depend on someone else's cooperation with my food choices, then I am giving away a huge chunk of control over my life. Hence my huge emphasis on "what *I* put in *MY* mouth." The power is MINE, and it is a real, tangible power. This is a GREAT thing!! This highlights one of my several gripes about using the "addiction" model for food, too. When I label myself an "addict," that word comes with a huge ton of baggage. The biggest piece, at least in the beginning, is that I have told myself, "I am out of control. This substance dominates my life." "Carb addiction" might exist, but it's rare. A REAL carbohydrate addict will not discriminate in what carbs to ingest when the need for a fix arises. It's not about the substance. It's about other things. Hence the exploratory work which, coming from my therapist, involved finishing the sentence, "I am eating in order to....." as many times as necessary and as long as it took. Usually, when people eat compulsively, there's an aspect of self-soothing or self-medication involved. In some people, such as those with damaged hunger/satiety messages or with certain blood sugar issues (to name just the two examples with which I have personal experience), there is a biological drive demanding to be satisfied. If you feel constant hunger and/or have no satiety signal, you're gonna eat too much. So, it's by no means "all in your head," but for those people who have some of it in their heads, surgery changes NOTHING in the long run. For those people who have certain biological mechanisms amiss, certain surgeries do NOTHING to change them. Anyhow....Back to the matter of keeping the responsibility right at what *I* put into *MY* mouth. It can be really tough to take all other people out of that equation. Food is social. But one of the absolutes about treating this killer disease of morbid obesity is that the "relationship with food" (uh, that very phrase is indicative of some pretty skewed thinking!) has to change. And like every change, it has to be at the SELF level first and foremost. What if the kids will NOT cooperate with your diet changes? What if the spouse will NOT agree to a xyz food-free environment? What are you going to do? Pack the kids away? Get divorced? Sometimes the divorce part happens, but I hope nobody would get rid of their kids . The demands about cooperation from others are almost always, IMO, indicative of things that have nothing to do with food. Common example that I read all the time on forums: "If he really loved me he'd just quit bringing that shit into the house!!" "She wants to sabotage me!!" Sometimes those statements might be true. But often as not, it's putting way too much baggage onto food. There are other, far better ways to address those feelings. Mark, maybe your wife hasn't figured out a different way to feed a group and needs some help to think about how to do that. Maybe YOU could feed the group instead of her. That way you'd have control of the food. I did that over Christmas because I was tired of my inlaws' shitty cooking and the days of gut misery I endured after every visit. It was great . Pinklyfe, maybe you need to think of other ways to walk away from your "trigger foods." Just because they are in the house is no reason to eat them. You CAN learn different behaviors. I like the idea of putting them under lock and key! Take the food out of the conflict and work out whatever the real problems are. Then I just bet you'll find that the cooperation issue goes away.
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Post by countof3 on Feb 14, 2012 15:43:06 GMT -5
This thread is great. I think the outcome from surgery is similar but different really. We all start off with restriction but where we go after is different. i've been reading today about "taste aversion" as I have it post VSG. It sounds as though it is a known factor but NOT definite. Not all get it. I'm at the point now, that I can take one bite of something and will know instantly that I can't eat it ever again. Thank GOD in heaven it's sweets. It started with my protein shakes ironically - diarrhea, nausea and the taste just made me go "ew". Now that's a really useful outcome but no guarantees. So many here don't have it, some say it goes away (I pray not but so far I've eliminated so much and have no desire to ever touch it again). I have 3 kids, no spouse. I can't feed 3 active boys (two teens) what I eat alone. They burn calories sitting. These kids must have a more standard diet BUT not entirely. So they get desserts some days, I just don't bring enough for me LOL. They get the occasional carb side but generally they get meat and veggies and fruit for dinner. I make what I will be able to eat from. They hate pasta thank goodness so I didn't have to fight that one. Last Saturday I made cinnamon rolls as a treat. I do stuff like that maybe twice a year. I didn't eat it. I recently made banana bread, I took 2 bites and threw the rest of the peice away (that's my trick, 1 or 2 bites and toss). So you have to view it not as punishment, but as taking care of yourself. That's so important. I don't see missing that stuff as bad or sad or punishment. I see it as "thank goodness I don't eat like taht now". I buy most of my kids treats in individual sizes. I rarely ever bake, did no baking for holidays this year I get a lot of pride from the changes I've made now, instead of feeling deprived. I'm not sure how I got here but I did and I'm happy.
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Post by reinventingangela on Feb 14, 2012 16:22:43 GMT -5
I think sometimes its hard for those of us who arent married to understand what a marriage partnership is supposed to be and while I understand where EN is coming from, I also understand where Pynk is coming from. Im sure in a marriage you want there to be a certain level of support for what your own personal needs are...if hubby was an alcoholic in recovery, you wouldnt bring home a bottle of wine and drink it in front of him for dinner.
By the same token, I agree with EN in that it has to somehow get to a point where you can stand on your own two feet in taking responsibility for what you eat regardless of whats available to eat. The problem is that this change and clarity doesnt usually come without some months or even years of working on the food issues that for some of us have been built and reinforced over a lifetime.
I think the difference is a. EN has probably about 3+ years ahead of some of us in therapy for these issues and b. sometimes once you resolve something within yourself, its hard to see how it was so overwhelming to begin with...
Using myself as an example, I quit smoking. Before I quit smoking, I had times when smoking felt more important to me than living....stupid as that may sound NOW, and knowing it was a sick pattern of thinking, doesnt change that I felt that way. It even appals me now that I could have felt that way and if someone else told me they felt that way now I would think they needed serious help. I also feel quitting is easier once you have quit but when you first try to quit its harder than anything youve ever done.
My point is that sometimes when youve already reached the other side, its easy to forget how it felt to still be fighting those illogical demons but it doesnt make them any less valid.
I think its good to know that there is hope for all of us to carve out a better relationship with food and that we dont have to stay "broken" as long as we continue to work ON the problem instead of always working around it...which is what I think EN is trying to say.
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Post by Brandilynn on Feb 14, 2012 16:53:24 GMT -5
Pynk.. My husband is also a human who lives on processed carbs and bears no ill effect from it. Now, he is courteous and does not bring home foods that I would dive straight into - but he DOES consume, on a regular basis, foods that if I WERE to dive into, I would not stop until they were gone. Period. For me, learning to structure foods, what I eat at home, versus what I eat elsewhere has been helpful. I do not eat pure-dee crap here at home unless its a function we are having here, and then that night before I go to bed, all foods I would keep at until they were gone are destroyed, covered with caustic stuff and put in the big bin outside. But, as a human being who either was "on a diet" or "NOT" I did not have any idea about how to structure foods that I would like to have sometimes, but I do not react to well if they are in my regular breathing in and out *diet. *and by this "diet" I mean, the foods I eat day in and day out. books.google.com/books?id=Nl2bfrlGW4AC&lpg=PR1&ots=FrkuEEWBTi&dq=%22thin%20commandments%22&pg=PR4#v=onepage&q&f=falseThat is a link to parts of the book, I am not recommending the "diet" but his thoughts on structuring things. Quite honestly, it has been incredibly helpful for me, and maybe ? it would be for you also? I was pretty laser focused during the loss time, but this has been really helpful for me during maintenance.
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Janis
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Post by Janis on Feb 14, 2012 17:25:57 GMT -5
It sounds like the long term people are saying that the surgery gave you the ability to lose but learned skills and hard work is keeping it off. I would think that any surgery to the digestive system would bring on a reduced intake and resulting weight loss until fully recovered. I keep thinking maybe I can go straight to the mental part and skip the surgery. I thought I had it in hand; I guess I do to some degree. If I was holding steady I'd be OK but it is the creeping upward that has me scarred. I wanted to address this, since I was there once. I lost from 308 to 155 about 15 years ago, over less than 2 years time. I maintained in the 168-175 range for about 5 years. Those were very, VERY hard years to maintain. My bottomless pit was never satisfied, and eventually after a traumatic life event, I put my head in the sand and ignored my health until it was out of control again. I *could* lose weight, maybe not like I had 15 years ago, single, and living at the gym.. but I knew I couldn't maintain that loss with the anatomy I was born with.. It is very hard to hold onto a large loss like that when your body, your stomach, hormones etc are all crying out for more food. That's why I decided I needed surgery, not necessarily just to lose, but to have assistance maintaining. I had the tools and the knowledge, but my body wouldn't let me use them on a regular basis. I now feel satisfied, and my raging hunger (be it mental or physical, or very likely a combo) has been reduced to a more sane hunger.. one that gives me some time to ponder and make the best call far more often than I ever could. If I were smart, and this surgery was around 15 years ago, knowing what I know now.. I would have had it as a lightweight and saved myself from regaining almost everything I lost all those years ago. Not trying to push your thoughts in one way or another, as only you know you.. but I thought I had it once, only to see it slide away, and the best I could do prior to surgery was stop the regain and try to stop the yo-yoing and just maintain for a while. I knew if I attempted another huge loss, the hunger would ramp up until I started the gain cycle again. Jo, I agree. I tell myself it would be much better to have surgery now than waiting until I gain back another 75 lbs. I'm going to keep fighting regain while exploring surgery. Janis
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 18:14:29 GMT -5
Im sure in a marriage you want there to be a certain level of support for what your own personal needs are...if hubby was an alcoholic in recovery, you wouldnt bring home a bottle of wine and drink it in front of him for dinner. I do not agree that food and alcohol can be held up as equal in this way. (And before someone tries to tell me I don't understand addiction, remember that I've been doing pastoral and other counseling since, oh, 1984 or so, and first joined the 12-step movement in 1978 with Alateen. Then there was Alanon, OA, Love is a Choice, Love Hunger, Celebrate Recovery.....) My point would be identical, though: It is still YOUR CHOICE whether or not to take that first drink. That's one of the primary messages of AA. And that would be the reason why I'm saying : Get. into. treatment. Postpone surgery if you must, unless circumstances somehow make it imperative to OPERATE RIGHT NOW (and while that *can* happen, it's not usually the case), so that you can get some tools into your toolbox to deal with the reasons why you're eating the way you do, or to change some of those behaviors, or whatever. That is true. The number is closer to twenty years. It took seven years of twice a week therapy to even sit in the same room with the mention of weight and eating, another three years before I was ready to do any work on it, and a good four solid years of work on the stuff. Eventually I became ready to do something, and I never looked back. Happily, lots of people are less stubborn and/or their problems less complicated than mine were. I. BEG. YOUR. PARDON. How DARE you assume that I don't remember or empathize? Bull fucking SHIT.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 20:20:01 GMT -5
as much as I understand I have to take responsibility for what I eat, I know it would be MUCH harder to eat healthy if there were chips and cookies in the house.
so I don't know what the answer is but I certainly sympathize.
I think having somewhere he keeps his junk food (locked) is a practical suggestion and might work. worth a try, certainly.
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Post by pinklyfe on Feb 15, 2012 0:13:46 GMT -5
Brandi, thank you for the link. I took a look at it. I have a lot of work with behavior modification and accountability to work on. I'm going to break it down into small steps to make it doable.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2012 12:35:43 GMT -5
Brandi, thank you for the link. I took a look at it. I have a lot of work with behavior modification and accountability to work on. I'm going to break it down into small steps to make it doable. Definitely small steps! MICRO steps if necessary. Take your time and do it very thoroughly. You will be oh, so grateful that you did.
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