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Post by cherylbaker on Oct 15, 2014 16:57:34 GMT -5
Sigh... 3.5 months now post ds. Thought i was doing well. Trying to listen to sone vets advise.. increasing protein and fat (which if course raises calories).. got my 3 month labs back and they were really bad (well thats what people tell me).. the info from the nut on how to fix them seemed inadequate to me (and to the vets i had been talking to). I sought out more opinions and than started feeling even worse cause these new people were telling me i was eating too much and at 3.5 months i should be doing mostly shakes and getting 120+grams if protein and only 900 calories.
Plus other non ds related things were bad.. for ex my cholesterol dropped from 144 (normal range ) to 124 (beliw normal) so i have to worry about that also.
So now im overwhelmed with all this.. eating too much food eating not enough protein vitamins being low and cholesterol being too low.
Spent all day crying overwhelmed by this.. i thought i was doing good.. feel good and losing weight etc etc.. but now i dunno what to do..
Hope someone here can help me
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Post by newyorkbitch on Oct 15, 2014 19:34:06 GMT -5
You not need to restrict calories or count calories, at all. Why do you think you are eating too much food ??
Try to get at least 100g of protein every day and keep your carbs low.
What vitamins are you taking?
Can you please post your labs here?
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Post by illinids2 on Oct 15, 2014 19:45:46 GMT -5
Sigh... 3.5 months now post ds. Thought i was doing well. Trying to listen to sone vets advise.. increasing protein and fat (which if course raises calories).. got my 3 month labs back and they were really bad (well thats what people tell me).. the info from the nut on how to fix them seemed inadequate to me (and to the vets i had been talking to). I sought out more opinions and than started feeling even worse cause these new people were telling me i was eating too much and at 3.5 months i should be doing mostly shakes and getting 120+grams if protein and only 900 calories. Plus other non ds related things were bad.. for ex my cholesterol dropped from 144 (normal range ) to 124 (beliw normal) so i have to worry about that also. So now im overwhelmed with all this.. eating too much food eating not enough protein vitamins being low and cholesterol being too low. Spent all day crying overwhelmed by this.. i thought i was doing good.. feel good and losing weight etc etc.. but now i dunno what to do.. Hope someone here can help me A couple points and a question: 1. You can't get too much protein. 2. Calories do not matter, it is the content of what you eat and that should 90% protein. 3. What makes you think 124 cholesterol is bad? |
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Post by bboop on Oct 15, 2014 20:15:37 GMT -5
Ok, so what are you eating? I doubt there's anyway you are eating too much...but you may be eating foods that aren't good for a DSer.
High protein and low carb. During the losing phase it is suggested that we keep our carbs to about 50 per day...and when we do eat carbs make them complex like fruit, veggies and the like.
What's your vitamin routine like? What are you taking and how much?
My cholesterol is way lower than that, so what's the big deal?
Tell us a little more, you are probably not in as bad a shape as you think you are. If you are, we will direct you to the proper balance. Have heart, ok?
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Post by cherylbaker on Oct 15, 2014 20:45:48 GMT -5
Ok, so what are you eating? I doubt there's anyway you are eating too much...but you may be eating foods that aren't good for a DSer. High protein and low carb. During the losing phase it is suggested that we keep our carbs to about 50 per day...and when we do eat carbs make them complex like fruit, veggies and the like. What's your vitamin routine like? What are you taking and how much? My cholesterol is way lower than that, so what's the big deal? Tell us a little more, you are probably not in as bad a shape as you think you are. If you are, we will direct you to the proper balance. Have heart, ok? Well the range for cholesterol says 125-200 and i was reading md sites that say low cholesterol us bad. Here us a typical day B: protein shake S: 2 pieces bacon L: fathead pizza (1 iz chicken and 1/8 cup alfredo sauce) S: lettuce with 2 oz chicken S: 2oz kielbasa and 1/2 cup carrots/1tbls butter S: 1oz macadamia nuts Dont always have fathead pizza when i don't i have something high in protein like clams and swap out the nuts fir a shake and sometimes i have cheese with the supper protein instead of carrots. . I keep my NET carbs below 20. My protein is around 80 to 90 and fat around 50 to 60 |
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Post by bboop on Oct 16, 2014 14:31:42 GMT -5
You aren't eating enough. Your protein should be around 120 to 150 per day. Drink more fluids...64 oz per day and add protein shakes/bars. I don't know if a Fathead pizza has a crust but that's carbs and not good for you at this point in your eating plan. Carrots are higher in sugar, but you can eat some. Look at green beans and other green type veggies first. The main thing is to eat your protein first then if there's room in that tiny tummy add a complex carbohydrate. Keep your carbs to about 50 per day...not 20. This isn't a race and you will become seriously malnourished if you continue to eat as you are doing. You have got to start eating more high protein foods. How about the vitamins? What are you taking? Tell us all - we want to help you and I suspect you aren't taking enough of them either. Lowering your protein will eventually kill you...yes it will. You HAVE to eat more protein AND shakes/bars. Nibble all day if you need to in order to get all the protein in. Again, I will state, this isn't a race, you will lose but seriously, many people stop losing because they have been starving themselves. So stop doing that and enjoy your new life. Learn to nibble all day and evening...get some cheese, deli meats, tuna with mayonnaise and other goodies to munch on in between meals. If you take a bite or two and then feel full, wait a little and have another. Keeping your carbs at 20 or below won't help...it will hurt you. Got it?  |
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Post by cherylbaker on Oct 16, 2014 14:38:52 GMT -5
There are no carbs in a fathead pizza (well maybe not none whatever is in chrese and cream )
Carrots corn and peas are the only veggies i can even stand. I will cut out the carrots. Nut said i needed to eat veggies for fiber.
Tks for the reply. As long as i am not already eating too much i have no problem eating more protein.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 14:48:51 GMT -5
Calories don't matter!!!!!! Quit counting!
Protein does!
As much fat as you can comfortably consume. (you'll know when it's too much)
Water, Water, Water (or wet stuff without sugar or carbs)
VItamins, Vitamins, Vitamins
1 point low or high on a lab is NOTHING to be worried about. Adjust, and retest in 3-6 months..
Quit looking on Medical sites, Your driving yourself crazy!!
Once you have that down... then start adding some good stuff at the end.. CARBS!!
You will get some carbs in just getting to your protein goal and thats FINE as long as it is not SUGAR or FLOUR.
You'll get there, Have Faith!!! We have faith in you!
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Post by bboop on Oct 16, 2014 14:51:52 GMT -5
In order to lose weight you have to feed the boiler...protein is the key. Starving yourself will make you sick and it won't take too long for that to happen. Remember besides you tiny tummy you are malabsorping a large % of your nutrients...that's why we need protein.
Have you tried chicken yet with some sort of sauce, how about ground beef, or pork? Get to using your crock pot. Don't have one go and get one. You don't need a fancy one but slow cooked meats are the easiest to digest relatively early out...I use mine constantly. I'm on a soup cooking kick right now.
Make a gravy with coconut flour to make the meat slide down easier. Some people prefer dark meat chicken...I don't but dark meat has more oils and fat in it so it slides easier. Look are the recipe section and see what others are doing for their low carb meals. Also look at Pinerest...type in low carb and all kinds of things come up.
One more time. What vitamins are you taking?
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Post by cherylbaker on Oct 17, 2014 14:57:03 GMT -5
In order to lose weight you have to feed the boiler...protein is the key. Starving yourself will make you sick and it won't take too long for that to happen. Remember besides you tiny tummy you are malabsorping a large % of your nutrients...that's why we need protein. Have you tried chicken yet with some sort of sauce, how about ground beef, or pork? Get to using your crock pot. Don't have one go and get one. You don't need a fancy one but slow cooked meats are the easiest to digest relatively early out...I use mine constantly. I'm on a soup cooking kick right now. Make a gravy with coconut flour to make the meat slide down easier. Some people prefer dark meat chicken...I don't but dark meat has more oils and fat in it so it slides easier. Look are the recipe section and see what others are doing for their low carb meals. Also look at Pinerest...type in low carb and all kinds of things come up. One more time. What vitamins are you taking? Sorry thought i answered that Iron, calcium, dry aedk, multi and b12 |
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Post by illinids2 on Oct 17, 2014 16:36:51 GMT -5
In order to lose weight you have to feed the boiler...protein is the key. Starving yourself will make you sick and it won't take too long for that to happen. Remember besides you tiny tummy you are malabsorping a large % of your nutrients...that's why we need protein. Have you tried chicken yet with some sort of sauce, how about ground beef, or pork? Get to using your crock pot. Don't have one go and get one. You don't need a fancy one but slow cooked meats are the easiest to digest relatively early out...I use mine constantly. I'm on a soup cooking kick right now. Make a gravy with coconut flour to make the meat slide down easier. Some people prefer dark meat chicken...I don't but dark meat has more oils and fat in it so it slides easier. Look are the recipe section and see what others are doing for their low carb meals. Also look at Pinerest...type in low carb and all kinds of things come up. One more time. What vitamins are you taking? Sorry thought i answered that Iron, calcium, dry aedk, multi and b12 The AEDK combo is woefully insufficient for a DS patient.  I take 100,000 IU of D & A every day, 800 of E, but don't take any K beyond my 2/day multi. |
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Post by bboop on Oct 17, 2014 17:07:37 GMT -5
You are totally vitamin deficient. I take:
2 calcium citrates @ 400 mg each 4x/day
vitamin D @ sublingual and regular dry from Vitalady
Vits A, K E all from Vitalady
Zinc two per day, I think that's 100 mg
Potassium 2 per day @595 mg
Collagen @ 4,000mg per day
Biotin can't remember the dosage but twice a day
Multi from Vitalady 1Xper day
I had iron transfusions so I don't take iron but you need to. Iron anemia is the stumbling block of many of us. So get that checked.
I can't seem to take Vit C...it wrecks my stomach...I've tried all kinds but you probably need it in the weight loss window. That's 18-24 months. Plus it helps you to absorb iron. And yes you will poop green. Welcome to the world of DS bathroom habits.
You really need to get with the program...I'm not kidding. I don't feel as if I take that many vitamins and it is second nature. I have a 30 pill organizer and I just take pills four times a day. I fill it one time per month and then I'm done.
You have to up your protein by massive amounts up to at least 150 grams per day, drink fluids at least 64 ozs and take your vitamins...none of this is negotiable. You will get sick and eventually bad things will happen to you. Look at Patigin's posts and see what a state he's gotten into...he's the poster child for what not to do. Now he's back on track and working hard to resolve the issues.
I'm not being mean...I'm telling you straight none of this stuff is negotiable. Please don't be put off by my telling you all this...I only do in the hopes that you will snap to and get with the program. You are a DSer and you have certain obligations to yourself and if you don't do them then you will truly suffer.
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Post by bboop on Oct 17, 2014 17:07:55 GMT -5
You are totally vitamin deficient. I take:
2 calcium citrates @ 400 mg each 4x/day
vitamin D @ sublingual and regular dry from Vitalady
Vits A, K E all from Vitalady
Zinc two per day, I think that's 100 mg
Potassium 2 per day @595 mg
Collagen @ 4,000mg per day
Biotin can't remember the dosage but twice a day
Multi from Vitalady 1Xper day
I had iron transfusions so I don't take iron but you need to. Iron anemia is the stumbling block of many of us. So get that checked.
I can't seem to take Vit C...it wrecks my stomach...I've tried all kinds but you probably need it in the weight loss window. That's 18-24 months. Plus it helps you to absorb iron. And yes you will poop green. Welcome to the world of DS bathroom habits.
You really need to get with the program...I'm not kidding. I don't feel as if I take that many vitamins and it is second nature. I have a 30 pill organizer and I just take pills four times a day. I fill it one time per month and then I'm done.
You have to up your protein by massive amounts up to at least 150 grams per day, drink fluids at least 64 ozs and take your vitamins...none of this is negotiable. You will get sick and eventually bad things will happen to you. Look at Patigin's posts and see what a state he's gotten into...he's the poster child for what not to do. Now he's back on track and working hard to resolve the issues.
I'm not being mean...I'm telling you straight none of this stuff is negotiable. Please don't be put off by my telling you all this...I only do in the hopes that you will snap to and get with the program. You are a DSer and you have certain obligations to yourself and if you don't do them then you will truly suffer.
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Post by newyorkbitch on Oct 17, 2014 20:17:14 GMT -5
FYI - she started another thread which could probably be merged into this one, she got a lot of info there...
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Post by newyorkbitch on Oct 17, 2014 20:17:59 GMT -5
In order to lose weight you have to feed the boiler...protein is the key. Starving yourself will make you sick and it won't take too long for that to happen. Remember besides you tiny tummy you are malabsorping a large % of your nutrients...that's why we need protein. Have you tried chicken yet with some sort of sauce, how about ground beef, or pork? Get to using your crock pot. Don't have one go and get one. You don't need a fancy one but slow cooked meats are the easiest to digest relatively early out...I use mine constantly. I'm on a soup cooking kick right now. Make a gravy with coconut flour to make the meat slide down easier. Some people prefer dark meat chicken...I don't but dark meat has more oils and fat in it so it slides easier. Look are the recipe section and see what others are doing for their low carb meals. Also look at Pinerest...type in low carb and all kinds of things come up. One more time. What vitamins are you taking? Sorry thought i answered that Iron, calcium, dry aedk, multi and b12 You did, on another thread. |
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Post by cherylbaker on Oct 17, 2014 22:11:47 GMT -5
Oh ok. Yah well as far as the vits go i took what my surgeon told me to take. When i got my labs back and got their recommendations i realized for whatever reason this very experienced surgeon was giving me bad information. I actually reached out last night to dr k who looked at my labs and told me what he would tell his patient whos labs looked like mine.. pisses me off being given bad information that could cause me to be sick.. but it is what it is. Vits came today so i will be taking i think its 100000 d and 60000 a or something like that. But another call to my surgeon is going to have to be done cause if he is not going to give me proper care im not going to have any more appts and will have to find someone else to take care of this
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Post by bboop on Oct 17, 2014 22:45:05 GMT -5
Look, surgeons are cutters...yes, they should be able to take care of you later, but they won't...at least most of them. So get yourself to a hematologist and figure out what you need to do.
I've given you a vitamin list, a rule of thumb to follow on protein, liquids and some food ideas, now you get to work on doing it. We can be as helpful as we possibly can, but you are going to have to take responsibility for yourself. Learn to advocate for yourself. I don't think there is one person on here who hasn't learned to do that.
Now get with the program. Stop whining and just do it.
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Post by jpcello on Oct 18, 2014 5:12:16 GMT -5
There are no carbs in a fathead pizza (well maybe not none whatever is in chrese and cream ) Carrots corn and peas are the only veggies i can even stand. I will cut out the carrots. Nut said i needed to eat veggies for fiber. Tks for the reply. As long as i am not already eating too much i have no problem eating more protein. You don't have enough room to "eat" your fiber. You're still too early out (3 months, right?). If you need fiber, add either fiber powder or pills and leave room in your tummy for protein. And just an FYI - I'm 11 years post-op and have trouble digesting corn & peas. I eat them because they are my two favorite veggies but only in limited quantities. I add a scoop of organic fiber to my cold morning beverage every day. As others have said, you need more food. |
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Post by jpcello on Oct 18, 2014 5:16:29 GMT -5
Oh ok. Yah well as far as the vits go i took what my surgeon told me to take. When i got my labs back and got their recommendations i realized for whatever reason this very experienced surgeon was giving me bad information. I actually reached out last night to dr k who looked at my labs and told me what he would tell his patient whos labs looked like mine.. pisses me off being given bad information that could cause me to be sick.. but it is what it is. Vits came today so i will be taking i think its 100000 d and 60000 a or something like that. But another call to my surgeon is going to have to be done cause if he is not going to give me proper care im not going to have any more appts and will have to find someone else to take care of this Cheryl - as many of us have learned over the years, most surgeons do not provide good follow up care. Some do (like Dr. K) but others, not so much. I went to one of the best cutters in the country, but his follow up sucked. He finally came to his senses about 5 years ago and brought in a NUT and PA who are very knowledgeable in the various surgeries and provide great information. Talk to your PCP (if you have one). See if they are willing to work with you. I'm lucky that my surgeon is local and I still use them for labs. I recently found a PCP who is willing to work with me so I'm gradually educating her on the DS and she's great. |
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Post by Melinda on Oct 18, 2014 15:14:37 GMT -5
My cholesterol stays at around 110. Who cares? Why are you stressing over 124? I don't understand that one at all.
NEVER EVER count or consider or worry about another calorie again. Ever.
Count your protein grams. That's all I count. Protein is free food. If it's laden with fat - who cares. It's free food. Bacon is awesome. Have I mentioned I love bacon?
I still don't understand what would make you cry all day about vitamins and cholesterol. Are you taking medication for depression? Cholesterol doesn't matter - so what if it's low? Vitamins can be FIXED. Just do it. I'd spend maybe 5 minutes thinking about it. Not all day.
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bila
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Post by bila on Oct 18, 2014 16:20:27 GMT -5
And you have had the past ten years to deal with your surgery and issues, she has had three months.
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Post by cherylbaker on Oct 18, 2014 16:39:41 GMT -5
There are no carbs in a fathead pizza (well maybe not none whatever is in chrese and cream ) Carrots corn and peas are the only veggies i can even stand. I will cut out the carrots. Nut said i needed to eat veggies for fiber. Tks for the reply. As long as i am not already eating too much i have no problem eating more protein. You don't have enough room to "eat" your fiber. You're still too early out (3 months, right?). If you need fiber, add either fiber powder or pills and leave room in your tummy for protein. And just an FYI - I'm 11 years post-op and have trouble digesting corn & peas. I eat them because they are my two favorite veggies but only in limited quantities. I add a scoop of organic fiber to my cold morning beverage every day. As others have said, you need more food. Yah well more bad info from the nutritionist. She told me to eat rhe fiber. . So i did. . But now im not. today went much smoother without the veggies. . |
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Post by illinids2 on Oct 18, 2014 16:40:01 GMT -5
And you have had the past ten years to deal with your surgery and issues, she has had three months. And this is a crucial time to get habits right so that she doesn't die. Yes a DS patient will die if you don't eat properly and take the proper vitamins. We are not being hard on her we are trying to help her understand that she has been given terrible advice by her surgeon's office and that this board knows how to live with the DS. |
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Post by cherylbaker on Oct 18, 2014 16:40:59 GMT -5
And you have had the past ten years to deal with your surgery and issues, she has had three months. Thank you |
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Post by illinids2 on Oct 18, 2014 16:44:52 GMT -5
You don't have enough room to "eat" your fiber. You're still too early out (3 months, right?). If you need fiber, add either fiber powder or pills and leave room in your tummy for protein. And just an FYI - I'm 11 years post-op and have trouble digesting corn & peas. I eat them because they are my two favorite veggies but only in limited quantities. I add a scoop of organic fiber to my cold morning beverage every day. As others have said, you need more food. Yah well more bad info from the nutritionist. She told me to eat rhe fiber. . So i did. . But now im not. today went much smoother without the veggies. . Cheryl, it is pretty common for Nutritionists to not have a clue about DS nutrition. They should, but they don't. They don't seem to grasp the fact that we only absorb about 25% of the fat we eat and about 60% of the nutrients from food in general. The fat we take in will regulate your bowels (yes we talk about poop all the time here) so the fiber isn't needed. What is needed is protein and Vitamins. So as many suggest, it really is best to just nod your head in agreement, but ignore your nutritionist if he/she is going to give you bad advice. This board will tell you how to eat, what vitamins to take, and how we live with the DS. Many like JPCello and NYB are 10 plus years out from surgery. You are getting it and you are going to do fine, so try not to get frustrated. It is overwhelming at first but finding this board was the best thing that could have happened to you. |
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Post by illinids2 on Oct 18, 2014 16:47:38 GMT -5
And you have had the past ten years to deal with your surgery and issues, she has had three months. Thank you Hon, I know you feel like you are being ganged up on but we mean well. We really are trying to help you, and some are more gruff than others in their advice but their heart is in the right place. This board wants nothing more than to help and you will learn to ignore some of the tone you read into some posts and that you really are getting sage advice. Like I said, you were given bad advice so we are just trying to help you understand and change habits. It is hard for us to believe a Dr's office can be so clueless, but as they say, "Cutters cut., and in general they suck at aftercare". |
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Post by jpcello on Oct 19, 2014 6:05:24 GMT -5
And you have had the past ten years to deal with your surgery and issues, she has had three months. Thank you Cheryl - this is a great board with a wealth of information. If it feels like we're ganging up on you, I am definitely not doing that. I can only speak for myself, but all I'm trying to do is provide the truth about living with the DS. You're in the baby stages of the DS and it can take some time to develop good habits. I didn't have anyone to help me out so I learned the hard way (serious deficiencies, etc.). Learning good habits early is critical to living successfully with the DS. IMHO 3 months is one of the most critical part of the learning process. You're finally starting to feel "normal" and you can actually eat and enjoy food, albeit in very small amounts. Because you can only eat small amounts, what you put in is really important. So at 3 months you're learning that you need to eat the RIGHT foods so that your DS can be a success. The DS is a tool and as long as you use that tool properly you will be a success. It's too bad many of the professionals don't provide accurate information about the DS. |
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Post by Melinda on Oct 19, 2014 15:52:52 GMT -5
Actually, Bila, I didn't spend 10 years stressing over it, no. I'm 12 years post op and she asked for help, so she came to the right place. We're offering her our help like she asked. See the title of this thread! You can take the suggestions and tips from those of us many years post op - or not - that's up to you.
I'm helping her understand that a 124 cholesterol count is NOT worth crying over, especially all day. You have to put things into perspective with this surgery. I didn't have this surgery to spend my entire life agonizing over every single little number. I fix the values that need fixing and let the rest go. Period. I had this surgery to live the rest of my life healthy. I've had a cholesterol # of 110 and it's reason to celebrate. Sure beats 210!
Get on the right path NOW for your vitamins and your body will thank you for it later! You're doing great - you've come to the right place, Cheryl - you'll see that the wealth of knowledge you get here will serve you a lifetime! Remember perspective - fixing it now means better health, healthy bones, feeling great down the road!
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Post by cherylbaker on Oct 19, 2014 16:42:42 GMT -5
Thanks for your comments guys. . It is hard to believe that people who do this surgery have no idea how to guide their patients. I spoke with dr k and even he preaches low fat.. i agree eating a lb of bacon and sticks of butter make no sense but eating low fat when you only absorb 20 percent makes no sense.
I tried just concentrate on protein and ignore everythung else but mfp lists them so i see them.. i have been eating full fat cheeses and stuff per info i had read on the internet but that makes my fat level high.. my current macros are 45% fat 45% protein and 10% carbs. I prefer to keep my carbs low to me it just makes sense.
Do you guys track your food at all? Do you have any idea what percentage of fats carbs and protein. I had read somewhere you should eat 90 percent protein.. that seems a bit unrealistic
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Post by newyorkbitch on Oct 19, 2014 16:48:27 GMT -5
150g protein
40-50g carbs
64oz of water
as much fat as you want
take your vitamins
You keep asking for different answers but that's what it is.
Stop worrying about calories, percentages "fat level high" whatever that means, eating too much.
Log your food into fit day or one of those types of things. It will calculate the grams for you.
Just look at the above, stick to it, and that's all you have to worry about.
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