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Post by historytracker on Jul 22, 2014 5:07:54 GMT -5
All people have no regrets with the DS. I know that for sure. Right now all of my friends - who do not know about the surgery are inviting me over for BBQ and drinking and I have politely declined the invitations. Your list of foods is enticing.
I e-mailed the nutrionist about the fat requirements/calorie restrictions. The weight is not coming off as fast as I like, but if I can get off anything at this point - I am grateful. Right now I am just struggling with the same 2 pounds and I was wondering what I was doing. I am exceeding the 400-500 calorie requirements because my cheese is high in fat.
Now I am doing my protein shake for breakfast. Then for lunch I will have greek yogurt. Tonight I am going to try another protein shake and just keep low on the fat/carbs/calories. If I can follow this this week - I will see if it makes an impact.
I also need to take my measurements because I could be losing inches with exercise. I want to do something more than walking, but at this point it may be too early.
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Post by newyorkbitch on Jul 22, 2014 6:04:35 GMT -5
Cindy your nutritionist's advise is not good. You do not have to restrict your fat. You don't absorb it.
I think focusing on low calories is a really bad idea.
You MUST change your view of all of this.
The reason you are not losing is because you are starving yourself.
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Post by jpcello on Jul 22, 2014 6:49:03 GMT -5
Cindy your nutritionist's advise is not good. You do not have to restrict your fat. You don't absorb it. I think focusing on low calories is a really bad idea. You MUST change your view of all of this. The reason you are not losing is because you are starving yourself. WHAT SHE SAID. If you are only eating 400-500 calories, that means you're only absorbing about 200-250 calories per day - clearly starvation. You must increase your food intake, focusing primarily on protein. Keep your carbs to around 50 grams per day. Doesn't matter what the book says. I would suspect that your nutritionist's book is geared more toward RNY or sleeve (hence the low fat instructions). I realize that increasing your food intake to lose weight is so counterintuitive to what we have all been taught our entire lives. That's part of the DS learning process. It takes time to learn these things.
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Post by Joanne on Jul 22, 2014 7:00:23 GMT -5
Cindy your nutritionist's advise is not good. You do not have to restrict your fat. You don't absorb it. I think focusing on low calories is a really bad idea. You MUST change your view of all of this. The reason you are not losing is because you are starving yourself. Exactly. You have to be prepared to make the decision - to either follow the advice of your nutritionist, or the advice of the people here successfully living with the DS. I doubt very much they will be the same, and that he/she will endorse the high fat diet we are telling you is necessary. That is normal, by the way. I understand that. When I was a newbie almost 6 years ago I wondered who these bunch of crazy people on the internet were - what made them think they knew more than my doctor. But you will have to make the leap of faith and decision to trust that. It's not a big leap, it makes sense. You know we malabsorb a lot of fat and a good amount of protein. It's easy to see that we need to eat a lot of those things just to absorb a normal amount. And the DS weight loss goes beyond simple math. There is real synergy and hormonal changes that make our metabolism even more efficient. You have to feed your furnace, focusing on protein and then as much fat as you want. Eating more fat and protein is the key to losing faster. But don't expect your nutritionist to validate that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 7:22:09 GMT -5
Cindy your nutritionist's advise is not good. You do not have to restrict your fat. You don't absorb it. I think focusing on low calories is a really bad idea. You MUST change your view of all of this. The reason you are not losing is because you are starving yourself. LISTEN TO THIS ADVICE!!!! EAT!!! Your body is starving for nurishment!! Give it FOOD!!! My advice: Get your protein in WITH FATS! 30/60/90 rule, As much fats as your GI tract can handle comfortably, then 50-75 carbs (good kind, veggies or WHOLE WHEAT, as little sugar as possible, doesn't have to be zero, just low..) Example breakfast. 1-2 eggs fried in butter, 3 strips of bacon, Whole Wheat toast with your choice of PB or Cream Cheese or full fat real BUTTER.. See a theme here? My breakfast this morning. Whole wheat english muffin covered (both halfs) in butter w/ 2 slices of bacon, 2 fried eggs, 1 slice of cleese and a sausage patty. nearly 20g protein, unholy fats, and about 20g carbs.. Much better tasting than a protein shake.. takes longer to eat, . I'm still nibbling on mine 35 minutes later..
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Post by Girlrocker on Jul 22, 2014 8:11:08 GMT -5
Cindy! All of the above! We talked about this a bit before your surgery. You now have a DS, not an RNY. No more pouch, no more intestine routed to a pouch; you have your actual stomach, your pylorus valve. Here is a definition of the DS (per my surgeon Dr. Keshishian) Because of this, DSers malabsorb a LOT. Which means, contrary to how we lived pre and with an RNY, we can eat. 120g+ protein is what we aim for lifetime-wise. We need to eat fat, our plumbing requires us to do so to keep moving. Here is the DS math posted here on the board It is generally accepted that DSers absorb: 0% of plant fiber 20% of fat 50% of protein 60% of complex carbs 100% of simple carbs Of these, you can only completely trust the figures for plant fiber and simple carbs. Plant fiber is indigestible in humans. Simple carbs are absorbed immediately in the mouth. Bariatric surgery has no effect on these values. Read more: weightlosssurgery.proboards.com/thread/8890/ds-math-revisited#ixzz38CXxYIRIDue to above is WHY we must supplement so rigorously, also for life. You now have a metabolic reset. Metabolism works most efficiently when it gets protein, preferably animal protein. Because the body does the work to break down and use the nutrients, same is true for any human. Also why complex carbs are part of diabetic diets, same reason, they are slow metabolizing, meaning the body does the work to break down and use the nutrients. Simple carbohydrates convert into sugar immediately, there is no work to break down the nutrients and use them. If you don't eat, your body thinks it's starving and your metabolism slows. You can eat all day long with a DS, as long as you are eating protein-centric foods first, supplementing with your 50g carb guideline. If you can't wrap your head around the details right now, fully understand, you don't have to, it will come. This is enough to know: Everything on this thread reiterates the significance of doing all we can to maximize the losing window of the surgery in the first 18 months. But you must do it having a DS, not an RNY. Your nutritionist has no idea what a DS is. You need to teach her. It sucks that we must continually be our own advocates, but our lives depend on it. Print this out and show it to her if you feel like you have to keep working with her. And please, this is not about rapid loss - and a revision is much different than a virgin surgery - it is about sustaining the loss. Do what your DS needs and your DS will do for you!
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Post by west4thavenue on Jul 22, 2014 8:42:47 GMT -5
Here is a definition of the DS (per my surgeon Dr. Keshishian) It is generally accepted that DSers absorb: 0% of plant fiber 20% of fat 50% of protein 60% of complex carbs 100% of simple carbs Of these, you can only completely trust the figures for plant fiber and simple carbs. Thank you for this. I hadn't seen all of this absorption data before. Do you happen to know if sodium intake is malabsorbed?
Sorry...not trying to hijack!
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Post by illinids2 on Jul 22, 2014 9:18:28 GMT -5
FYI - I agree with 99.9% of what is being said but I do not believe that our bodies are smart enough to absorb 100% of simple carbs and not other things. I have not seen this confirmed in any peer reviewed studies and I think this is something that is opinion that much of the board accepts as fact.
JMO and I have no research to back it up.
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Post by amydroe on Jul 22, 2014 10:45:23 GMT -5
True story Cindy Marc is forever on me about eating more. And I promise you, the more I eat, the more I lose
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2014 11:08:36 GMT -5
All people have no regrets with the DS. I know that for sure. Right now all of my friends - who do not know about the surgery are inviting me over for BBQ and drinking and I have politely declined the invitations. I encourage you to participate with your freinds and not decline invitations to be around them. I'm not saying drink (*yet*), but BBQ is an excellent thing for the DS!! You will have to tell them about your surgery at some point, or you'll have to find new freinds. Make these occasions about Friends, not about food in your mind. I realize that this can be hard to do. but the sooner you start , and find who accepts your decision, and who doesn't, the more comfortable you will be with the people that accept you for who you are. Those that don't, frankly, can kiss your butt. It's your life, not thiers. If they are REAL freinds, they would be glad for you, and wish you the best with it, whether they support your path or not. I chose to not live a lie, and to tell everyone why I cannot eat or drink if they ask. It will spawn more questions, and I answer those too. I don't just blurt it out, but if they ask why, I tell them, I have nothing to hide, I am NOT ashamed of my decision to have the surgery. I am not scared of what they have to say about it. Honestly, I don't care what they think. NOT THEIR LIFE,NOT THEIR CHOICE, it was mine, all mine.
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Post by newyorkbitch on Jul 22, 2014 11:20:21 GMT -5
I disagree - she doesn't have to tell anyone she doesn't want to - it's nobody's business. I told very very few people. My private business is my private business. It has nothing to do with who is a "real" friend, it has to do with my desire for privacy. I wasn't and am not "living a lie" I just don't feel any desire to share my intimate business with all but the very closest of friends and family. And that's very few people.
Each of us has to do what is most comfortable for us in our lives. There is no right or wrong and no better or worse.
Cindy, you can eat a little big of bbq and just say you're dieting and leave it at that - or whatever you're comfortable with.
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Post by jmdenton on Jul 22, 2014 11:40:01 GMT -5
Not to rehash anything, but why is Cheryl feeling hungry and full at the same time? Is that mind hunger? I love all of the veteran's advice on here. I am learning so much!
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Post by cherylbaker on Jul 22, 2014 12:19:57 GMT -5
Not to rehash anything, but why is Cheryl feeling hungry and full at the same time? Is that mind hunger? I love all of the veteran's advice on here. I am learning so much! I was not going to post here cause the constant attacking of me was taking me down. But i am in a much better place thanks to my real life friends who know me and helped me through. I am not there yet (still no protein) but at least I have something in my body to sustain me. My take was(and still is) is that I was not really full. I was in pain which I interpreted from my experience with my pouch as being full. When you overeat it hurts I was hurting so I thought I was overeating. . I was hungry cause I was starving to death 150 calories and all the activities in was doing was insane. I am a rigid person you tell me this is what you are suppose to do I follow that to the letter.. In this case even though it was hurting me. Last night was the worse night of my life. I was ready to check myself into the hospital and let them feed me with the iv. I was in so much pain and so hungry I just wanted to die. Literally .. This morning I woke up and the thought of going another day of hell was more than I could stand. I decided to take my friends and my counselors advice and don't do anything that makes my body feel bad. Which seemed to me to be anything made with whey protein. So sent hubby to store. Got unsweetened applesauce, eggs, tomato soup. These are three things that sounded really good to me. I hoped if it sounded good it would feel good and since I haven't lost a lb in over 5 days I had to do something. 8 am 2 oz unsweetened applesauce No pain felt good 9am .5 egg (omg so delicious) No pain felt good (Oops fell asleep missed 10 guess I was tired) 11am 2 oz frozen yogart (surgeons ideal) no pain felt good 12pm tomatoe soup make with half milk and half water (just in case it was dairy also as part of the problem No pain felt good (omg this was even better tasting than the egg) Time for another meal but still feel full from the soup. Not sure what to do. Might try just drinking some protein water hoping the small amount of protein in it won't upset me and I can sneak some protein in.. afraid to try though as I am tired of being sick.. but i feel full but I could be wrong. . That's my interpretation of my body and what has happened to me over the past week. Honestly not really interested in the haters replying telling me I'm wrong. It's not your body I think I may know my body a little better than anyone else.. (sorry don't want to insult anyone everyone means we'll but I am not going down that negative crap road again ..
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Post by newyorkbitch on Jul 22, 2014 12:31:34 GMT -5
Cheryl it is fine to eat what you can tolerate - just make sure you're getting 30g of protein in every day, and make sure you are drinking enough fluids. That is all you have to do.
The advice you get here is valuable. You will not find this much good DS information anywhere else - you are talking to many people who have been exactly where you are. It would be a good idea to listen.
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Post by jmdenton on Jul 22, 2014 12:34:42 GMT -5
I know they are not hating on you. I know that for a fact! I didn't intend to bring up drama, just asking the vets why someone would be starving after having half of their stomach removed. My impression was that our appetites would be gone.
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Post by cherylbaker on Jul 22, 2014 12:45:44 GMT -5
Cheryl it is fine to eat what you can tolerate - just make sure you're getting 30g of protein in every day, and make sure you are drinking enough fluids. That is all you have to do. The advice you get here is valuable. You will not find this much good DS information anywhere else - you are talking to many people who have been exactly where you are. It would be a good idea to listen. My surgeon told me as long as I am peeing 3 to 4 times a day I am fine. I have never gotten in the amount of liquids prescribed but have always peed more than 3 or 4 times a day. I knew it was wrong to post. Sorry backing away. . I know you guys think you have all the answers and I'm glad what you say works for you and glad you can think your not attacking me but you don't know me and if what you say doesn't work for me doesn't make me wrong and if I say I am feeling attacked if you cared at all you would understand that is how I feel and respect that instead of just saying your not attaching and keep doing it. Don't bother replying I am not even reading this group any longer
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Post by caprice on Jul 22, 2014 13:26:42 GMT -5
Cheryl it is fine to eat what you can tolerate - just make sure you're getting 30g of protein in every day, and make sure you are drinking enough fluids. That is all you have to do. The advice you get here is valuable. You will not find this much good DS information anywhere else - you are talking to many people who have been exactly where you are. It would be a good idea to listen. My surgeon told me as long as I am peeing 3 to 4 times a day I am fine. I have never gotten in the amount of liquids prescribed but have always peed more than 3 or 4 times a day. I knew it was wrong to post. Sorry backing away. . I know you guys think you have all the answers and I'm glad what you say works for you and glad you can think your not attacking me but you don't know me and if what you say doesn't work for me doesn't make me wrong and if I say I am feeling attacked if you cared at all you would understand that is how I feel and respect that instead of just saying your not attaching and keep doing it. Don't bother replying I am not even reading this group any longer You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Post by Girlrocker on Jul 22, 2014 13:48:18 GMT -5
Cheryl, the people here don't have all the answers, but they have a LOT of them. Do you realize that the people who replied to you here are anywhere from 5-14 years post-op? You have never been attacked, I can assure you, I know plenty of people who are happy to do that, use people like target practice and, and really glad we don't have that type of person here. You have been given a lot of advice, guidance, caring by people who live with the surgery who are literally, trying to save you from yourself. Everyone here volunteers, no one had to do this. We do it because we know what it has meant to us and pay it forward. I have been in the bariatric community since 2002 and I can't begin to imagine this experience without the advice, experience, knowledge I've gotten from support sites and the people on them. I'm saying this not just to you, but to anyone else who might be reading because it's important they too understand how to live and work the DS. There's a blueprint for the process, from post op and up, and everyone has to adapt it slightly to make it work for them, go through trial and error. But the things we are saying are about: fluid, protein, vitamins, what you are working toward and the need for therapy and whatever other support necessary to help with underlying issues of obesity that could detract from your success. You are always welcome here, and you need to want to help yourself, that's the one thing we can't do for you or anyone.
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Post by Joanne on Jul 22, 2014 14:06:27 GMT -5
Cheryl I'm sorry you feel attacked. I don't really see where that happened, but I am sorry that's the way you feel. I'm glad you did your listen to your body experiment. If you read back a few days, this is pretty much what I suggested for you to do. Small bites of what you tolerate, as often as your body is telling you that you want them. Early out, one bite can make all the difference between hunger and pain. When we are overweight for so long, I think many of us lose the ability to listen to those signals. You have to relearn them. The first steps are to heal and not be in pain. You will then need to make sure that what you eat is protein based (substitute eggs for the applesauce, for example), but resolve the pain first, and listen to your new body. I would disagree with Dr Roslin on the peeing, though. It could be one way to measure, but I don't think it's reliable. Just keep that in the back of your mind, if you would, about how easy it is to become dehydrated. I say this from experience. He told me the same thing, and I was hospitalized twice for IV fluids because I was dehydrated. I hope you reconsider this community for support. Not to rehash anything, but why is Cheryl feeling hungry and full at the same time? Is that mind hunger? I love all of the veteran's advice on here. I am learning so much! I was not going to post here cause the constant attacking of me was taking me down. But i am in a much better place thanks to my real life friends who know me and helped me through. I am not there yet (still no protein) but at least I have something in my body to sustain me. My take was(and still is) is that I was not really full. I was in pain which I interpreted from my experience with my pouch as being full. When you overeat it hurts I was hurting so I thought I was overeating. . I was hungry cause I was starving to death 150 calories and all the activities in was doing was insane. I am a rigid person you tell me this is what you are suppose to do I follow that to the letter.. In this case even though it was hurting me. Last night was the worse night of my life. I was ready to check myself into the hospital and let them feed me with the iv. I was in so much pain and so hungry I just wanted to die. Literally .. This morning I woke up and the thought of going another day of hell was more than I could stand. I decided to take my friends and my counselors advice and don't do anything that makes my body feel bad. Which seemed to me to be anything made with whey protein. So sent hubby to store. Got unsweetened applesauce, eggs, tomato soup. These are three things that sounded really good to me. I hoped if it sounded good it would feel good and since I haven't lost a lb in over 5 days I had to do something. 8 am 2 oz unsweetened applesauce No pain felt good 9am .5 egg (omg so delicious) No pain felt good (Oops fell asleep missed 10 guess I was tired) 11am 2 oz frozen yogart (surgeons ideal) no pain felt good 12pm tomatoe soup make with half milk and half water (just in case it was dairy also as part of the problem No pain felt good (omg this was even better tasting than the egg) Time for another meal but still feel full from the soup. Not sure what to do. Might try just drinking some protein water hoping the small amount of protein in it won't upset me and I can sneak some protein in.. afraid to try though as I am tired of being sick.. but i feel full but I could be wrong. . That's my interpretation of my body and what has happened to me over the past week. Honestly not really interested in the haters replying telling me I'm wrong. It's not your body I think I may know my body a little better than anyone else.. (sorry don't want to insult anyone everyone means we'll but I am not going down that negative crap road again ..
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Post by Leonie on Jul 22, 2014 14:15:06 GMT -5
I know they are not hating on you. I know that for a fact! I didn't intend to bring up drama, just asking the vets why someone would be starving after having half of their stomach removed. My impression was that our appetites would be gone. HI Jmdenton This is a very interesting question. Hunger has definitely changed for me, but my appetite is definitely not gone. I used to be always hungry, always tired, always eating and always gaining. Now I eat for energy and can actually feel how food sustains me. The topic of Ghrelin is very interesting. These are the receptors in our stomach that send the hunger signals, and then tell the hypothalmus to release insulin to process carbs. Too much insulin was released, our cells closed, and we could not get any energy from the food we ate, thus stayed hungry (Sorry, this is my simplified understanding, there is much more science to this). With the DS, lots of the ghrelin is gone, so no more insulin resistance, no more false hunger pangs. But hunger is not gone for me, and never was. It just feels different. I know when my body needs nourishment, and it is every 2-4 hours. I wake up in the middle of the night with the urgent need to eat. There is no ignoring it, I have to get up and eat. Unlike the old days it is not four slices of bread filled with the contents of the fridge. a large handfull of nuts, some jerky, a chicken thigh, a large wedge of cheese, or something like that, and I am really totally satisfied... Until two hours later. I have to eat about seven times a day, and it is not optional. As far as feeling starving, it could be that the OP really needs the energy and is genuinely hungry, and I think this is the case. It could also have something to do with irritation of the Vagus nerve. It could also be acid. Too much acid is a common problem early out, and the irritation can feel like hunger. This is why a good PPI is essential until the stomach is fully healed. As for me, I am beginning to suspect that my feelings of "hunger", is actually low blood sugar, and that I am intuitively self-regulating by eating very frequently. I suspect this because, if I go too long without eating, I crave chocolate. Chocolate is one of the few simple carbs that I can tolerate and I think my body knows I need the quick energy of simple carbs. Every human is very different, and every person experiences the DS in their own unique way. Cheryl is not the first person for whom tomato soup works, or who cannot tolerate protein shakes. We need to learn to listen to advice, but follow our own bodies.
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Post by illinids2 on Jul 22, 2014 14:20:14 GMT -5
I know they are not hating on you. I know that for a fact! I didn't intend to bring up drama, just asking the vets why someone would be starving after having half of their stomach removed. My impression was that our appetites would be gone. HI Jmdenton This is a very interesting question. Hunger has definitely changed for me, but my appetite is definitely not gone. I used to be always hungry, always tired, always eating and always gaining. Now I eat for energy and can actually feel how food sustains me. The topic of Ghrelin is very interesting. These are the receptors in our stomach that send the hunger signals, and then tell the hypothalmus to release insulin to process carbs. Too much insulin was released, our cells closed, and we could not get any energy from the food we ate, thus stayed hungry (Sorry, this is my simplified understanding, there is much more science to this). With the DS, lots of the ghrelin is gone, so no more insulin resistance, no more false hunger pangs. But hunger is not gone for me, and never was. It just feels different. I know when my body needs nourishment, and it is every 2-4 hours. I wake up in the middle of the night with the urgent need to eat. There is no ignoring it, I have to get up and eat. Unlike the old days it is not four slices of bread filled with the contents of the fridge. a large handfull of nuts, some jerky, a chicken thigh, a large wedge of cheese, or something like that, and I am really totally satisfied... Until two hours later. I have to eat about seven times a day, and it is not optional. As far as feeling starving, it could be that the OP really needs the energy and is genuinely hungry, and I think this is the case. It could also have something to do with irritation of the Vagus nerve. As for me, I am beginning to suspect that my feelings of "hunger", is actually low blood sugar, and that I am intuitively self-regulating by eating very frequently. I suspect this because, if I go too long without eating, I crave chocolate. Chocolate is one of the few simple carbs that I can tolerate and I think my body knows I need the quick energy of simple carbs. Every human is very different, and every person experiences the DS in their own unique way. Cheryl is not the first person for whom tomato soup works, or who cannot tolerate protein shakes. We need to learn to listen to advice, but follow our own bodies. Interesting stuff Leonie. I am always hungry now...much more than before surgery. It could be low sugar and is one of the reasons I do not shy away from any food gtoup. I do think our body is telling us what we need. I can be full to the point of pain and 50 minutes later be eating 6 slices of bacon.....crazy.
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Post by Joanne on Jul 22, 2014 14:29:33 GMT -5
Not to rehash anything, but why is Cheryl feeling hungry and full at the same time? Is that mind hunger? I love all of the veteran's advice on here. I am learning so much! I can only give you my experience. Hunger feels different, even for me now at 5 years. Early out, I was never hungry. But it was easy for me to confuse certain feelings with hunger. I felt empty. My stomach needed things that made it feel warm and full - like hot tea, a few bites of scrambled egg, or soup. Without those things, I would start to feel nauseous. As I healed, I was one of those people that would forget to eat if I didn't realize I had to. It wasn't that food made me sick, I just was not hungry. That lasted maybe 6 months. Then I would get hungry again, as I do now. But as a pre-op, my hunger felt more like "body hunger", if that makes sense. That low blood sugar, going to crash, have to eat feeling. I haven't had that one day since my DS. Hunger to me now is just a rumbly stomach hunger. So to answer your question, I think everyone is different. I can only speak for myself. But what I suspect is that most of us have to relearn what hunger is, and learn to listen to our bodies. Hunger can be caused by low blood sugar, emotions, hormones, really so many things and triggers so it's not easy to say what is true for one person is true for every person.
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Post by Girlrocker on Jul 22, 2014 15:33:45 GMT -5
Anything anyone wants to know about what Cheryl asked and why she feels attacked is right here on this thread, everyone just trying to help, especially as she was sharing some very deep fears, anxieties about her personal life too. Something I learned in therapy a long while ago, is that whether I liked it or not, if I was getting the same message from a lot of worthwhile people, maybe I needed to pay attention. Old habits and patterns take a long time to re-write. That said, in answer to the hunger question, same I can only speak from my own experience. One gift I did get from my RNY was an end to the bottomless pit hunger I used to have, which was agonizing. The difference between my pouch and sleeve is a lot, I feel like I understand a lot more now about 'full' and hunger, even though I experienced that with my pouch. It's different having a 'real' stomach again. I do get hungry, and did fairly early post-op, but it's never that bottomless pit hunger. I do get REALLY hungry, cranky when I'm hungry, but I'm satisfied. I remember reading that often people would mistake thirst for hunger, so sometimes I'd drink some water to assess if that was true. I find I have regular eating days, days I can really eat, and, small tummy days, where I'm just not that hungry or interested. I really notice the density difference in foods, what is truly 'filling' and what I can eat huge quantities of. I still can eat my biggest meal in the morning in terms of one sitting. And I do eat frequently all day. Still learning/paying attention to the how/when I'm hungry, what I've eaten today, mood, all that. Feels really normal, which, is really different As for whether to tell or not to tell, to me, very personal decision. I told who I'm comfortable with and would share that information with, others I don't. I don't talk about it on Facebook because I use it a lot of work. There are plenty of situations I DO like to talk about it, teach, educate. And I know I wouldn't like to live a double life, but I also know there are some people/situations I just never would go there for privacy reasons, nothing else. Going out early post-op and staying under the radar is the most challenging, less so later on when you can eat more. But there's all kinds of responses to change the subject if you're with people you wouldn't necessarily tell. Now no one would ever know I had surgery of any kind, they think I'm health conscious or just eat Atkins style.
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Post by goodkel on Jul 22, 2014 19:28:57 GMT -5
FYI - I agree with 99.9% of what is being said but I do not believe that our bodies are smart enough to absorb 100% of simple carbs and not other things. I have not seen this confirmed in any peer reviewed studies and I think this is something that is opinion that much of the board accepts as fact. JMO and I have no research to back it up. It is a scientific fact and the very definition of a simple carb that it requires no further breakdown and begins being absorbed the minute it hits your mouth. You need to learn a bit about the different types of carbohydrates and how they are absorbed. These are well known established facts about the different types of carbohydrates and how the body processes them. There is no need for peer reviewed studies. This is a short blurb I gave Bev of DSFacts permission to reprint from a message board reply I gave someone a long time ago: A DS Carb Primer By Kelly L. All carbs begin digesting in the mouth when it comes in contact with the enzyme amylase. Even complex carbs begin the process of breaking down into simpler types at this point. Since monosaccharides need no further digestion to be absorbed, you begin absorbing them as soon as they hit your mouth. Enzyme activity continues in the stomach but, it is slowed by contact with stomach acids. When the carbs hit the intestines is where the DS may assist in preventing some absorption of the more difficult to digest polysaccharides (starches). A type of amylase is secreted by the pancreas into the duodenum that cuts carbs down into simple sugars. As it passes further, more enzymes break the carbs down into even smaller bits until they are eventually converted to glucose and absorbed by the villi in your intestinal walls. Because of the switch portion of the DS, the amount of time that a polysaccharide is in contact with pancreatic enzymes is reduced. Enough to stop some of the digestive process? Likely. This is probably why many people have gastrointestinal issues when eating starches. No gas or runs? You're likely digesting them more efficiently and, therefore, absorbing more. Also, since glucose is absorbed by the villi in the intestine, those with shorter common channels and those earlier out will also absorb less. As your body adjusts to the DS, you grow more villi to counteract the malabsorption, so more villi equals' greater absorption of glucose. It's possible that that's where your surgeon came up with the 30-60% malabsorption of carbs figure. But, for anyone who is not losing or maintaining their weight effortlessly, that 30-60% guesstimate is just too wide a margin to mess with. I'd avoid or severely limit all starches, too. Sugar alcohols are technically carbs, too, like fiber. But, because they aren't completely digestible by the body, they aren't absorbed the way that regular sugar is absorbed. Some of it is absorbed, though, so (besides the unpleasant bathroom side effect) you shouldn't eat a whole bag of sugar free candy, either. www.dsfacts.com/carbohydrates.php
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Post by goodkel on Jul 22, 2014 19:55:35 GMT -5
Not to rehash anything, but why is Cheryl feeling hungry and full at the same time? Is that mind hunger? I love all of the veteran's advice on here. I am learning so much! I was not going to post here cause the constant attacking of me was taking me down. But i am in a much better place thanks to my real life friends who know me and helped me through. I am not there yet (still no protein) but at least I have something in my body to sustain me. My take was(and still is) is that I was not really full. I was in pain which I interpreted from my experience with my pouch as being full. When you overeat it hurts I was hurting so I thought I was overeating. . I was hungry cause I was starving to death 150 calories and all the activities in was doing was insane. I am a rigid person you tell me this is what you are suppose to do I follow that to the letter.. In this case even though it was hurting me. Last night was the worse night of my life. I was ready to check myself into the hospital and let them feed me with the iv. I was in so much pain and so hungry I just wanted to die. Literally .. This morning I woke up and the thought of going another day of hell was more than I could stand. I decided to take my friends and my counselors advice and don't do anything that makes my body feel bad. Which seemed to me to be anything made with whey protein. So sent hubby to store. Got unsweetened applesauce, eggs, tomato soup. These are three things that sounded really good to me. I hoped if it sounded good it would feel good and since I haven't lost a lb in over 5 days I had to do something. 8 am 2 oz unsweetened applesauce No pain felt good 9am .5 egg (omg so delicious) No pain felt good (Oops fell asleep missed 10 guess I was tired) 11am 2 oz frozen yogart (surgeons ideal) no pain felt good 12pm tomatoe soup make with half milk and half water (just in case it was dairy also as part of the problem No pain felt good (omg this was even better tasting than the egg) Time for another meal but still feel full from the soup. Not sure what to do. Might try just drinking some protein water hoping the small amount of protein in it won't upset me and I can sneak some protein in.. afraid to try though as I am tired of being sick.. but i feel full but I could be wrong. . That's my interpretation of my body and what has happened to me over the past week. Honestly not really interested in the haters replying telling me I'm wrong. It's not your body I think I may know my body a little better than anyone else.. (sorry don't want to insult anyone everyone means we'll but I am not going down that negative crap road again .. Forget the whole idea of three meals a day. That will never work for you. There is no set schedule to DS eating. Eat always when you are hungry and only when you are hungry. It you are full after two or three teaspoons, that is fine. If you are hungry again in an hour, have another couple of teaspoons. Do not force anything. Eat only as much until you are comfortably full and as often as you are hungry. You are not going to starve to death. Your vitamins are providing nutrients. Your protein is fueling your muscles. Your body is using your fat as fuel. That's a big YAY!. Your body is still recovering from surgery and will be for awhile. Until you have healed, don't push anything except liquids. Stressing your body will not encourage it to lose weight, just the opposite.
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Post by goodkel on Jul 22, 2014 20:48:28 GMT -5
I know they are not hating on you. I know that for a fact! I didn't intend to bring up drama, just asking the vets why someone would be starving after having half of their stomach removed. My impression was that our appetites would be gone. I was STARVING post op. When they brought me my first small cup of Jello, I thought I would have to grab the whole tray of them. As it was, one of these tiny cups (think plastic condiment cup) took me until the next meal time to eat. Two small spoonfuls and I was stuffed. Not all the ghrelin producing tissue is removed when they make your sleeve. ONLY part of your stomach is removed. There is still the rest to feel hunger.
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Post by goodkel on Jul 22, 2014 22:32:16 GMT -5
Not to rehash anything, but why is Cheryl feeling hungry and full at the same time? Is that mind hunger? I love all of the veteran's advice on here. I am learning so much! If she is physically full, what she is craving is not food itself, but the comfort or whatever other psychological benefit that food and/or the act of eating gave her. A therapist can help you work through these issues and help you discover positive new behaviors that can fulfill whatever need food fulfilled before surgery. People who don't take the reins and get some help with this can find themselves overindulging in other life destroying habits like drugs, alcohol, and gambling. Or she could just be craving cheesecake.
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Post by historytracker on Jul 23, 2014 3:56:20 GMT -5
Hey guys - I am 3 weeks postop. I have to progress through this diet (right now - pureed) and right now I just need to get through the next four weeks. The life will return to normal and I will be sitting eating my 1 slice of rye toast with butter and bacon for breakfast. I hate eggs!
In another 4 weeks, I will be back to around 1200 calories or more which is where I can feel somewhat normal. What I am happy about is not starving! I can eat a 6 oz cup of Greek yogurt and feel totally satisfied. The scale moved today and that is a beautiful thing.
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Post by Girlrocker on Jul 23, 2014 8:48:46 GMT -5
Hey guys - I am 3 weeks postop. I have to progress through this diet (right now - pureed) and right now I just need to get through the next four weeks. The life will return to normal and I will be sitting eating my 1 slice of rye toast with butter and bacon for breakfast. I hate eggs! In another 4 weeks, I will be back to around 1200 calories or more which is where I can feel somewhat normal. What I am happy about is not starving! I can eat a 6 oz cup of Greek yogurt and feel totally satisfied. The scale moved today and that is a beautiful thing. Cindy, I'm glad to hear you're feeling better, scale moved! and have perspective about the plan ahead. It's not abnormal in the least to proceed with a lot of caution food-progression wise with an RNY to DS revision. So if your nutritionist is advising you from that perspective, it's one thing. I had to ease into full fat and denser meats/food, my surgeon wanted my insides to have the longest time to heal they could, so I was on liquids and soft foods for awhile. When I started eating 'real' food again, for meat it was thin sliced deli, Boca chikn patties, Garden burgers. I couldn't handle bread for awhile. It was a very slow progression for me, the first real meat I had was lean ground turkey and chicken drumsticks. If your nutritionist is advising you on that low fat/calorie eating is a lifestyle, this is what we are trying to say - we hope you understand that your DS lifestyle big-picture is one that includes working toward 120g protein in a 30/60/90 day progression, no restriction on fat, 50g carb as a guideline to maximize your losing window- and that you need to rewire from thinking in low-fat/calories! It's normal to rely on protein shakes a lot for up to 12 weeks or more to get in protein. I double scooped my protein shakes all during my 18 month window, and I still have one a day, I was determined to get in as much protein as I could because it's best for stimulating the metabolism we now have thanks to the DS reset. The early part of recovery pretty much sucks, but I was fine with doing whatever it was going to take to get me to the prize this time, the one I never saw with my RNY. I know it's hard, but be patient, ride this out, it's not forever, and you have an amazing future of awesomeness food and LIFE ahead of you!
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Post by illinids2 on Jul 23, 2014 9:16:04 GMT -5
Hey guys - I am 3 weeks postop. I have to progress through this diet (right now - pureed) and right now I just need to get through the next four weeks. The life will return to normal and I will be sitting eating my 1 slice of rye toast with butter and bacon for breakfast. I hate eggs! In another 4 weeks, I will be back to around 1200 calories or more which is where I can feel somewhat normal. What I am happy about is not starving! I can eat a 6 oz cup of Greek yogurt and feel totally satisfied. The scale moved today and that is a beautiful thing. Cindy I would have to advise you not to eat the toast at this point. Bacon (protein) yes...toast no....you don't have room in your stomach for the toast (at least not more than a bite) if you want to get in the protein you need. As far as hating eggs, tastes change after this surgery so you may want to try again.
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