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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 15:55:59 GMT -5
Hi everyone!
I am just starting my wls journey with my first visit to my surgeon last week. I went in to the surgeon's office thinking the best surgery option for me was the duodenal switch. My friend had the sleeve done in March 2013 and lost almost all her weight, I think she is 10 away from her lowest goal weight. She told me that she is not a normal case and people do not lose as much as she did so quickly. That was one of the reasons I was looking towards the ds, because of it having the highest percentage of weight loss stats. I also have a co-worker who has the sleeve done in 2012 and she lost some weight but did not have the same success as my friend.
I started watching videos of other people's journey's with both ds and the vsg and for the most part I see that the vsg has had great results. My question is what made you choose ds over vsg? This is just for informational purposes so I can try to see how others made their decisions. This by far is not easy decision to make and I appreciate any words of wisdom from you all.
Thank you so much for your time!
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Post by caprice on Jun 3, 2014 16:11:09 GMT -5
I needed the malabsorption that comes with the DS. Simple restriction wasn't going to do it -- short OR long-term. I could fast for 10 days and not lose a pound, so, it wasn't that I was just eating too much. At least, not now. At some point in my life, that MAY have done it, but at 310 pounds, my metabolism was broke. The DS "fixed" that.
Because of my family history, I was dreading the possibility of type II diabetes, most of my first cousins have it. The DS has MUCH better stats toward resolving or lessening type II. So, happily, my blood sugar numbers are great.
Those are two of the reasons I'm so very glad I had the DS.
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DS v. VSG
Jun 3, 2014 16:16:22 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by illinids2 on Jun 3, 2014 16:16:22 GMT -5
Restriction alone will not make diabetes go away, you have to diet the rest of your life with a sleeve only an it does not have the weight loss results longer term that the DS provides. That made vsg unacceptable for me.
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Post by bboop on Jun 3, 2014 18:40:52 GMT -5
Ditto what the other two posters said. Less regain and I lost the diabetes. Besides I could pretty much eat low carb for life and it seems to work for me. Restriction just wouldn't do it for me. Eventually your stomach stretches...that's where the malabsorption comes in.
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Post by west4thavenue on Jun 3, 2014 18:51:27 GMT -5
Welcome, Marj,
I went for the highest long-term success rate available, and the DS offers that. With the other surgeries, I kept seeing a word repeated over and over again..."REVISION". I saw that many people who had the less invasive surgeries later wound up revising to the DS. My health and family history was really, really bad, and I knew I would probably only have one opportunity in my life to have any kind of WLS. So I chose malabsorption.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 19:09:20 GMT -5
Thank you guys! Everything you all are saying reassures me of my initial decision to go with the DS. I look forward to getting to know you all through this experience
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Post by kyal on Jun 4, 2014 0:24:38 GMT -5
It was a no brainer for me. I had already had the VSG and failed to loose any significant amount of weight. DS was the only other thing I could do.
VSG works well for some, mostly suitable for people with less to loose and no comorbidities like diabetes. If you have diabetes nothing else will give you The best chance at remission than a DS.
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Post by jpcello on Jun 4, 2014 4:57:01 GMT -5
Keep in mind that with the DS, because of the malabsorption, you must commit to a lifetime of vitamins, labs, high protein, etc. If you're not willing to make that commitment, the sleeve is a viable option.
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Post by caprice on Jun 4, 2014 7:37:41 GMT -5
Keep in mind that with the DS, because of the malabsorption, you must commit to a lifetime of vitamins, labs, high protein, etc. If you're not willing to make that commitment, the sleeve is a viable option. THIS. Please look through this site for posts about the importance of regular labs and proper supplementation, including the right kinds A, D, E and K, which are typically sold as oil capsules, but we as DSers MUST take them in dry form (or powder in capsules). People, including medical professionals, are alarmed at the amounts that we regularly take to maintain good health. Educate yourself about this. A DSer can get very sick by ignoring the importance of regular bloodwork.
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Post by psamom on Jun 4, 2014 8:01:43 GMT -5
Also, as you are deciding, make sure you understand the on-going cost of upkeep for the DS -- the vitamins, supplements and labs are substantial, permanent expenses. Personally, I find that the cost is easily balanced out by the improved / reduced volume of food I consume now. But its something to think about if finances are any kind of concern for a potential patient.
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Post by meq815 on Jun 4, 2014 9:36:37 GMT -5
Welcome!
Kind of off topic, but when I started looking at wls, I had only really heard of RNY. When I went to the info seminar and learned about the DS, I thought, "why would anyone have anything other?" Seemed like a no brainer. And I didn't just want the sleeve, with the possibility of a second surgery.
Kudos to you for doing your research!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 11:12:37 GMT -5
Keep in mind that with the DS, because of the malabsorption, you must commit to a lifetime of vitamins, labs, high protein, etc. If you're not willing to make that commitment, the sleeve is a viable option. THIS. Please look through this site for posts about the importance of regular labs and proper supplementation, including the right kinds A, D, E and K, which are typically sold as oil capsules, but we as DSers MUST take them in dry form (or powder in capsules). People, including medical professionals, are alarmed at the amounts that we regularly take to maintain good health. Educate yourself about this. A DSer can get very sick by ignoring the importance of regular bloodwork. These were also part of the reason I was initially having second thoughts about ds. I have been doing a lot of research and I understand the importance of eating the protein, taking the vitamins and getting the blood-work. I am going into the surgery I choose knowing that it is a complete lifestyle change and commitment. I take vitamins everyday now, though not nearly as many as I will need to take after the surgery. Reading all the posts from this site and various others is definitely helpful and I don't know how I could go through this decision process without all of it. I am grateful that their is this community of people to reach out to and get help from.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 11:14:13 GMT -5
Also, as you are deciding, make sure you understand the on-going cost of upkeep for the DS -- the vitamins, supplements and labs are substantial, permanent expenses. Personally, I find that the cost is easily balanced out by the improved / reduced volume of food I consume now. But its something to think about if finances are any kind of concern for a potential patient. That is also a very good point. And I was hoping that the cost would be balanced out by the food factor.
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Post by goodkel on Jun 5, 2014 1:56:00 GMT -5
Welcome! I'm glad you found us!
Think twice, cut once.
As with everything, there are always ways to save money.
You could just buy the full Vitalady pack outright or you could shop for deals on C, Zinc, Multivitamins, and the like. There are often coupons and buy-one-get-one deals as well as values at Costco and Walmart. It is mostly the dry (A, D3, E, and K2) vitamins that you won't be able to find in ordinary retail.
Chicken wings, legs and thighs are inexpensive. If you shop the sales and build your weekly menu around them, there is always meat and fish on sale. Take advantage of that.
If money is tight, insurance is a must. A full set of labs, out of pocket, is over $600 and you will need them every three months the first year, every 6 months the second year, and annually after that. That does not count that you always must retest a downward trend or deficiency every three months until it is at an appropriate level.
Yes finances are definitely an issue, but there are ways to save.
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Post by illinids2 on Jun 5, 2014 13:15:05 GMT -5
Welcome! Kind of off topic, but when I started looking at wls, I had only really heard of RNY. When I went to the info seminar and l earned about the DS, I thought, "why would anyone have anything other?" Seemed like a no brainer. And I didn't just want the sleeve, with the possibility of a second surgery. Kudos to you for doing your research! Exactly. I never considered the RnY because I saw failures and I like to eat a variety of foods that the RnY would not allow. When I learned of the DS through Marc it quickly became something that made a ton of sense and seemed like a perfect fit for me.....so far it has been exactly what I needed.
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Post by illinids2 on Jun 5, 2014 13:19:41 GMT -5
I will not lie, my food cost has really not gone down and vitamins are not cheap, but that is no problem at all for me. I was on 5 different prescription meds before surgery and now I am just on Omeprazole for my GERD and Gabapentin for back pain (nothing to do with surgery or obesity before surgery). My meds/supplement costs are a little lower but I know longer have diabetes or higher cholesterol.
BTW, I do not take any vitamin K as what is in my multi is enough. As they say her, YMMV (your mileage may vary). The vitamins sound daunting at first but they really are no big deal once you get into this.
Good luck on your journey and you are doing good research so I am sure you will do well. Being educated about this surgery and the changes that come along with it, is very important.
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Post by Girlrocker on Jun 5, 2014 15:32:18 GMT -5
Hello and wanted to chime in to say welcome! You've gotten great feedback already, that covers the essential bases. I'm a revision, but from RNY to DS. So not the surgeries you're comparing, but I can share with you what I've had to go through. There's no question for me I wish I'd had the DS first. At the time, I believed the medical community line of the RNY being the 'gold standard'. I did choose the RNY over the lapband at the time because I felt I needed the firmer hand of the malabsorption. I do know plenty of success stories with the RNY and the sleeve; but if you are at all metabolically challenged, have a long-term history with morbid obesity, then you face the possibility of regain, and I mean beyond a normal minor bounce (10 lbs or less) that can occur once a few years out from surgery. The DS definitely offers the best shot at not only weight loss, but long-term weight loss management. That's where my RNY failed me, and I wouldn't wish I what I went through on anyone, I was devastated. There is a more rigorous vitamin supplementation than I had with the RNY; from a food cost and type perspective, they're also not hugely different for me. I had already been eating protein first, protein emphasis, moderate/mostly complex carbs, small, frequent meals throughout the day. The most significant changes are being able to eat more - but that means more protein, filling up on 'good' things, because DSers malabsorb so much in protein and fat; and there's a liberty of not having to eat no-fat/low fat. Watching the carb consumption - the amount and the type - remains the same, as must my personal diligence to being a compulsive/emotional/addictive eater when it comes to carbs. I stick with complex carbs overall, and make my allowances for what I want, really like, and work hard at not overindulging, or eating when I'm stressed. Always a work in progress there, though over the years it's gotten better with a lot of work - and therapy in the mix. I've been able to reincorporate a lot of favorites in more regularly, from meatloaf to cheeseburgers, skin-on chicken, regular salad dressings, full fat mayonaise, stir frying with oils again instead of butter alternative or broth, and no guilt on consuming guacamole as long as it's not with two basket of chips So the food part and how different eating is for you largely depends on how you eat now, what kind of habits you have, how many diets you might have tried, if you like protein, can handle moderate lifestyle, can be open to trying new things, a new way of thinking about food. That's the other great thing, there are so many more options now, we are a much more health-conscious society, lots of great products, alternatives to simple carbs that scratch the itch. And I find it's super easy to dine out with the DS, very rarely am I in a situation of any kind where there's nothing I can have. If it's a lifestyle you can live with in all aspects, than the DS is the route to go; for the handful of food intolerances I have and a few other lifestyle accommodations, they are minor compared to the life I've been given in return. I've learned in my life that to have something usually means a compromise, to have something, we let some other things go. The trade has been win-win all around for me.
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Post by talltexan2 on Jul 12, 2014 19:00:44 GMT -5
Newbie to this board. I am a 62-year old male who is presently tipping the scales at 425lbs. Despite my 6'5" frame, I am morbidly obese and have all the attending health issues one usually finds with such a degree of obesity: Type II, insulin dependent diabetes, high cholesterol, and sleep apnea. A few years ago I was diagnosed with right-heart congestive heart failure - an ailment that cannot be cured.
I spent 30 years in the military, running 4-5 miles a day, 6 days a week, and eating just 2 meals a day in order to keep my weight below maximum allowables. When I retired in 2003, I stopped running. BIG mistake. Over the following 11 years I put on 185lbs. My quality of life is pretty miserable right now, given my weight and the symptoms associated with congestive heart failure. My weakened heart is only taking in from the lungs about 75% of the blood it should be, meaning that I easily tire and even simple day-to-day task like showering, walking around in the yard, and going out to the mailbox and back leave me with tired legs and a little winded. My condition will only worsen as my heart grows weaker. I MUST get rid of this weight NOW.
I have researched weight loss procedures for several years now, but have always been reluctant to undergo any surgery for weight loss due to my personal experience with people I know who have had such surgeries. Folks who had the traditional bypass, Roux-en-Y, always looked unhealthy to me after their weight loss. Yes, they were thinner, but they looked gaunt, their hair straw-like, and were generally unhealthy looking. Also, it seemed that many of them had some body image issues that impacted their overall personalities. By that, I meant they were not the same personality wise as they were before surgery. I didn't notice the same change in folks who had the banding done or, more recently, the vertical sleeve surgery. All of those who had the latter surgeries have gained the weight back that they lost over an 8-9 month period, though it did take more than 2 years for them to get back to their original weight, or close to it.
So, I've been looking hard at DS surgery as my best choice, but my bariatric consult says the surgeon refuses to do the surgery on any patients with less than a 60 BMI, citing the health issues related to malabsorption as the reason. His recommendation is the gastric sleeve. Seeing that his clinic performs all bariatric procedures, and that he would be making less money than he would if I had DS done, I'm sure that he truly believes he's looking out for what is best for me. That said, I've seen FAR too many great reports on DS, both on the outcome and long-term success. While malabsorption CAN be an issue in those who don't strictly follow the proper post-treatment protocol (blood test and vitamins/supplements), the vast majority of patients have no issues. Consequently, I'm changing clinics and am now seeking an experienced and proficient DS surgeon in the San Antonio area. Any recommendations in that regard are appreciated.
I look foward to learning more about this journey I am just starting out on and appreciate any feedback in this regards. I've enjoyed reading the posts in this Forum, having learned much from the personal experiences of each poster.
Thanks.
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Post by west4thavenue on Jul 12, 2014 20:54:58 GMT -5
Newbie to this board. I am a 62-year old male who is presently tipping the scales at 425lbs. Despite my 6'5" frame, I am morbidly obese and have all the attending health issues one usually finds with such a degree of obesity: Type II, insulin dependent diabetes, high cholesterol, and sleep apnea. A few years ago I was diagnosed with right-heart congestive heart failure - an ailment that cannot be cured. I spent 30 years in the military, running 4-5 miles a day, 6 days a week, and eating just 2 meals a day in order to keep my weight below maximum allowables. When I retired in 2003, I stopped running. BIG mistake. Over the following 11 years I put on 185lbs. My quality of life is pretty miserable right now, given my weight and the symptoms associated with congestive heart failure. My weakened heart is only taking in from the lungs about 75% of the blood it should be, meaning that I easily tire and even simple day-to-day task like showering, walking around in the yard, and going out to the mailbox and back leave me with tired legs and a little winded. My condition will only worsen as my heart grows weaker. I MUST get rid of this weight NOW. I have researched weight loss procedures for several years now, but have always been reluctant to undergo any surgery for weight loss due to my personal experience with people I know who have had such surgeries. Folks who had the traditional bypass, Roux-en-Y, always looked unhealthy to me after their weight loss. Yes, they were thinner, but they looked gaunt, their hair straw-like, and were generally unhealthy looking. Also, it seemed that many of them had some body image issues that impacted their overall personalities. By that, I meant they were not the same personality wise as they were before surgery. I didn't notice the same change in folks who had the banding done or, more recently, the vertical sleeve surgery. All of those who had the latter surgeries have gained the weight back that they lost over an 8-9 month period, though it did take more than 2 years for them to get back to their original weight, or close to it. So, I've been looking hard at DS surgery as my best choice, but my bariatric consult says the surgeon refuses to do the surgery on any patients with less than a 60 BMI, citing the health issues related to malabsorption as the reason. His recommendation is the gastric sleeve. Seeing that his clinic performs all bariatric procedures, and that he would be making less money than he would if I had DS done, I'm sure that he truly believes he's looking out for what is best for me. That said, I've seen FAR too many great reports on DS, both on the outcome and long-term success. While malabsorption CAN be an issue in those who don't strictly follow the proper post-treatment protocol (blood test and vitamins/supplements), the vast majority of patients have no issues. Consequently, I'm changing clinics and am now seeking an experienced and proficient DS surgeon in the San Antonio area. Any recommendations in that regard are appreciated. I look foward to learning more about this journey I am just starting out on and appreciate any feedback in this regards. I've enjoyed reading the posts in this Forum, having learned much from the personal experiences of each poster. Thanks. Hello, Talltexan and welcome from a short Texan who also has CHF!
I recommend that you go for a second opinion. Travel to surgery is an option. You are not limited to San Antonio only. Your bariatric consult is wrong. Look at my stats. I was nowhere near a 60 BMI, but I had comorbidities that qualified me.
FYI, I travel to Denton, Texas to see both my bariatric surgeon AND my cardiologist. As a matter of fact, I will be in Denton on Monday and Tuesday having some tests run on my heart.
The information on this board is extremely valuable. It's a little quieter here on the weekends, but I know the veterans will add a great deal here.
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Post by goodkel on Jul 12, 2014 23:59:56 GMT -5
A 60 BMI? What a crock. That bariatric surgeon does not do the DS. Period. I have heard of surgeons insisting on a BMI of 50, but 60 is out of the park. No surgical procedure becomes easier or less risky the more you weigh. The malabsorption issue is a crock,too. I was a relative lightweight with a surgery BMI around 41 and I personally know others with BMIs even lower than mine doing just fine. These are just the arguments of a surgeon who doesn't want to/can't do the DS and wants to steer you to another surgery. You are absolutely right that the DS is the best surgery. Highest percentage of excess weight lost and highest percentage of excess weight loss maintained long term. With your BMI of 50.2, you need the DS to get your weight down to a healthy level. The DS also provides your best chance of getting your diabetes into a permanent remission. With your malabsorption of fat at 80%, even bacon is low fat for you and, unless your body naturally makes an excess of cholesterol no matter what you eat, those levels too will drop while enjoying real butter, cream in your coffee, cheeseburgers, and well marbled steaks. We do not live a life of deprivation in order to maintain our loss. Like people who have never been morbidly obese, we must always watch our carbs to prevent gain and cutting them back will actually work to lose regain unlike all the diets we've tried in the past. The DS flips a switch and gives us a normal metabolism. My main concern is your heart and it is kismet that you came here because our lovely and brilliant Monica (west4thavenue) also struggles with heart issues and has just four months ago had her DS in TX. I hope you will consider her surgeon: Dr. Folahan Ayoola Dr. A's website: www.weightlosssurgeon.com/(855) 576-9782 info@weightlosssurgeon.com Frisco Office 5680 Frisco Square Blvd Suite 2500 Frisco, Texas 75034 Denton Office 3321 Colorado Blvd Denton, Texas 76210 Phone (855) 576-9782 <I am moving this thread to the DS board as it is not Data, but a discussion.>
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Post by jpcello on Jul 13, 2014 5:50:44 GMT -5
Reading this reminded me of my first support group meeting with Dr. Elariny. It was back in 2002. Dr. E's very first DS patient was a gentleman named Ford. He came to Dr. E because he literally had no where else to turn. He was well over 400 pounds (I think) and his heart was failing (I honestly don't remember the exact problem). They decided to move forward with the DS because they knew he was going to die without losing the weight and the DS was his only real hope of losing the weight (and keeping it off). He survived the DS surgery and lost a good portion of his excess weight. He always had heart problems but he was able to live much more comfortably because he lost the weight and more importantly kept it off.
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Post by west4thavenue on Jul 13, 2014 9:12:25 GMT -5
...My main concern is your heart and it is kismet that you came here because our lovely and brilliant Monica (west4thavenue) also struggles with heart issues and has just four months ago had her DS in TX. I hope you will consider her surgeon: Dr. Folahan Ayoola Dr. A's website: www.weightlosssurgeon.com/(855) 576-9782 info@weightlosssurgeon.com Frisco Office 5680 Frisco Square Blvd Suite 2500 Frisco, Texas 75034 Denton Office 3321 Colorado Blvd Denton, Texas 76210 Phone (855) 576-9782 <I am moving this thread to the DS board as it is not Data, but a discussion.> What a lovely compliment. Thank you.
Talltexan, you are right. CHF isn't going away and it is NOT a picnic. However, after losing 64% of my excess weight, it is already not the automatic death sentence it might have been. When you can move...especially without the joint pain...your heart can and does get stronger. I have begun to live again and do things I love.
I won't lie to you. The first 12 weeks post op were the roughest riding I've ever had. The day after my surgery, the nurse came to get me out of bed for my first walk and I had a heart attack (my third). The surgery didn't cause the heart attack, of course. I would have had that anyway. If I hadn't been in the hospital when I had it, I would not have made it. It was the anterior coronary artery that was blocked...they call that "the widowmaker". I was being treated within 60 seconds (I was just passing the nurses station when it started) and I am still here.
I am 58 years old. TBH, I may not live an "average" life span, whatever that is. But I can already tell you that what time I have remaining is quality time, and a great deal more of it than I would have had if I didn't have the benefit of the DS tool.
Find a surgeon who does the DS on a regular basis. Dr. Ayoola is wonderful and I do highly recommend him. Call and speak with someone on his staff. There are others in Texas. Just remember when they start to recommend one of the lesser surgeries, it is probably a bait and switch gimmick. Don't fall for it.
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Post by talltexan2 on Jul 14, 2014 17:18:16 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your kind welcome and great input. I will contact the Dr. in Denton and see if he recommends anyone down in this neck of the woods. I really don't relish the 6-hour drive, one way, to get to Denton for surgery and any follow-ups necessary. Hopefully, there is someone closer. Again, thanks to you all.
Btw, Monica, you don't like a day over 40 in your pic!!
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Post by goodkel on Jul 15, 2014 10:57:37 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your kind welcome and great input. I will contact the Dr. in Denton and see if he recommends anyone down in this neck of the woods. I really don't relish the 6-hour drive, one way, to get to Denton for surgery and any follow-ups necessary. Hopefully, there is someone closer. Again, thanks to you all. Btw, Monica, you don't like a day over 40 in your pic!! Most DS surgeons are accustomed to accommodating patients who have to travel to them. You can get pre-op tests done locally and email or fax the results to them. They often want you to stay in a hotel locally for a few days after surgery, just in case so you'll already be there if any post-op complications develop. As far as aftercare goes, there is generally nothing that a cooperative pcp couldn't do for you from home. I had my DS in Mexico, on the other side of the continent, and since I left Mexico I haven't had the need to communicate with my surgeon at all. My pcp removed the staples from my open DS, orders all the labs I request of her, and provides me the a hard copy of the results. That's all the after care you need. The only other DS surgeon that I am aware of in TX is Dr. Wilson. One of our members has had an issue with him very recently not being attentive enough to a post op complication she has. But, he is an excellent surgeon otherwise. Erik Wilson, MD Email: Erik.B.Wilson@uth.tmc.edu UT Houston 6700 West Loop South, Ste 500 Bellaire, TX 77401 Phone: 713-892-5500 Fax: 713-871-0071
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Post by west4thavenue on Jul 17, 2014 10:49:11 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your kind welcome and great input. I will contact the Dr. in Denton and see if he recommends anyone down in this neck of the woods. I really don't relish the 6-hour drive, one way, to get to Denton for surgery and any follow-ups necessary. Hopefully, there is someone closer. Again, thanks to you all. Btw, Monica, you don't like a day over 40 in your pic!! Thanks, Tall. Good to hear back from you. I was 52 when that photo was taken. I have a lot of added mileage since then, so I became pretty camera shy. Someday soon I will post a new photo of myself.
As goodkel says, you can do your follow ups through your PCP. The important thing is to find the surgeon you feel is best for you. It's worth traveling to have that confidence.
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Post by goodkel on Jul 17, 2014 11:03:18 GMT -5
I bet you look better than you think you do, Monica.
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Post by west4thavenue on Jul 17, 2014 11:49:21 GMT -5
I bet you look better than you think you do, Monica. Oooh, I hope you're right!
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Post by curlygirlny on Jul 19, 2014 14:00:11 GMT -5
I had the VSG, no I'm revising to the DS. Thought the VSG was enough, and RNY was not something I wanted. If I could do it again I would have done the DS first. VSG is still a nice option.
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Post by nicholivolkoff on Jul 23, 2014 16:49:02 GMT -5
Here is one for you. I had a veg in 2009, lost all the weight I wanted to. Then I lost my job and sat around for 2 years. I regained fast. So I had a DS, self paid, in Montreal. I have since gained 15 pounds. The DS is no miracle and don't let anyone let you think so.
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Post by illinids2 on Jul 23, 2014 16:57:53 GMT -5
Here is one for you. I had a veg in 2009, lost all the weight I wanted to. Then I lost my job and sat around for 2 years. I regained fast. So I had a DS, self paid, in Montreal. I have since gained 15 pounds. The DS is no miracle and don't let anyone let you think so. A couple questions then a comment: 1. What did you weigh/your BMI before the DS and what do you weigh/BMI now? 2. What is your daily diet? The DS gives the best EWL of any WLS Option and that is statistically proven, but success is dependent on numerous factors but it gives the best chance for long term success.
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