trinalockary
New Member
Posts: 43
Surgery Type: DS
Surgery Date: Apr 26 2010
Surgeon: Christian Oakley
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Post by trinalockary on Mar 29, 2014 3:20:00 GMT -5
I have always had a horrendous sweet tooth and I paid for it by getting up to 463 pounds and being insulin resistant, it did not help that I didn't realize that I had been Gluten Intolerant my entire life until I was over 3 years out, I always blamed my exhaustion and pain on my weigh and my mood swings on being crazy. After WLS it got far worse but I didn't eat it too often so it wasn't until last year after my first knee replacement that it became so obvious. The thing is as I got closer to goal this last year and a half, about the time I got to 250 my sugar craving went insane. I am now 195 (up from 5 minutes at 179) but I am fighting this addiction tooth and nail. And it is an addiction, I think about sugar, I hide the evidence despite the fact my husband would not make me feel bad about it, I guess I am hiding the proof from myself. I have cried about my cravings, I know nutrition, I KNOW why I need to avoid sugar, I avoid wheat without stress but sugar, especially chocolate, is a demon for me. I wonder if I am the only persons who sugar cravings got worse as they got farther out? Also what hints do you have, I want to drop the last 20 pounds to get to 175 but sugar is definitely standing in the way.
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trinalockary
New Member
Posts: 43
Surgery Type: DS
Surgery Date: Apr 26 2010
Surgeon: Christian Oakley
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Post by trinalockary on Mar 29, 2014 3:28:18 GMT -5
I realize I have to quit all simple carbs and cut back on fruit...being gluten intolerant I don't eat baked goods and GF baked snacks are not my cup of tea, I don't eat rice because more than 2 bites and I am likely to throw up I do occasionally eat a few bites of steel cut oats but having to buy GF ones makes it costly, I like apples but I am cutting them way down as I worry about it increasing my sugar cravings at this point. I can eat quinoa, non starchy veggies (a few bite of sweet potato is it for me with those) and all meats and fish. I use Nectar protein in coconut/almond milk with coffee as regular milk was something I also abused the hell out of (48 oz a day on average along with cheese nearly gave me anemia) and I am only now starting to add it back into my diet in the form of lite Low sugar Greek yogurt and cheese on my food. I eat slivered almonds and almond butter and can handle all nuts except walnuts and pecans hurt my mouth and peanuts give me frat boy belches. I can handle beans and split peas so I do get a lot of protein but since I am having constipation issues I think I need to increase my healthy fats.
Anyway that's me
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 9:13:14 GMT -5
I have always had a horrendous sweet tooth and I paid for it by getting up to 463 pounds and being insulin resistant, it did not help that I didn't realize that I had been Gluten Intolerant my entire life until I was over 3 years out, I always blamed my exhaustion and pain on my weigh and my mood swings on being crazy. After WLS it got far worse but I didn't eat it too often so it wasn't until last year after my first knee replacement that it became so obvious. The thing is as I got closer to goal this last year and a half, about the time I got to 250 my sugar craving went insane. I am now 195 (up from 5 minutes at 179) but I am fighting this addiction tooth and nail. And it is an addiction, I think about sugar, I hide the evidence despite the fact my husband would not make me feel bad about it, I guess I am hiding the proof from myself. I have cried about my cravings, I know nutrition, I KNOW why I need to avoid sugar, I avoid wheat without stress but sugar, especially chocolate, is a demon for me. I wonder if I am the only persons who sugar cravings got worse as they got farther out? Also what hints do you have, I want to drop the last 20 pounds to get to 175 but sugar is definitely standing in the way. I don't know your daily diet but the only hint I know is the anecdotal evidence I see on this board seems to indicate that if you want to lose more weight you need to eat more protein, and of course, exercise is going to help. I would also be interested to know how much "sugary food" you are eating daily. It is my firm belief, as I said in another post, that there are no bad foods only bad choices about how much and how often we eat a give food group. If you are eating 4 large candy bars a day along with other starches and more sugar based food, that is an issue, but if you are eating a candy bar everyday (like a snickers with nuts that has protein in it) and limiting you other carb intake while getting in plenty of protein, that isn't and issue, IMO. Good luck.
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trinalockary
New Member
Posts: 43
Surgery Type: DS
Surgery Date: Apr 26 2010
Surgeon: Christian Oakley
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Post by trinalockary on Mar 29, 2014 11:22:29 GMT -5
The thing is I don't eat a small amount of sugar, more (sometimes much more) than a king size candy bar or theater sized box of candy daily on top of 2 or more apples and sometimes oranges...occasionally popcorn or gluten free snack food like corn puffs or rice crispy. The main problem isn't my eating a little chocolate it is that my sugar cravings fall soundly into addictive behaviors... i.e. thinking about sugar all the time/planning my next "fix" sneaking or hiding my intake, justifying behavior I know will make me sick, consuming out of proportion with any possible need, Deep seated guilt that has no effect on my consumption Consuming to the point of sickness (throwing up, stomach pain, diarrhea) Consuming even when not actually enjoying spending money on sweets I can't afford (quite literally my last dollar for the week at times)
There are studies that say that for certain people sugar affects them the way drugs do other people.
"We are all programmed to like sugar. New research shows some are genetically more prone to sugar and food addiction than others. I have observed this in my patients, but now it is becoming clear why some have more trouble kicking the sugar habit than others.... The Genetics of Pleasure
In our brain, a little receptor, the dopamine receptor D2 or DRD2 for short, must be activated or switched on for us to feel pleasure. The amino acid dopamine triggers this response. Sugar and other stimulating addictions increase dopamine in the short term. The only problem is it appears that those with sugar addictions, compulsive eating and obesity have DRD2 systems that need much more stimulation to feel pleasure. Those who have sugar addiction, it seems have fewer D2 dopamine receptors and they need extra stimulation to make them "turn on".(i)
Functional MRI studies of teenagers, both lean and obese, found that the obese teenagers whose brains didn't light up as much in the dopamine reward centers were more likely to be obese and gain weight later.(ii) They also were more likely to have the DRD2 gene that coded for fewer receptors.
Some studies have pointed to drugs or nutrients that can modulate this defective dopamine reward response. In one study, naltrexone, an opioid blocker (blocks the effects of heroin and morphine on the brain) was used in sugar addicts. When they took this drug, which prevented them from getting the temporary high from sugar, they craved less and ate less" .
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Post by bboop on Mar 29, 2014 11:25:51 GMT -5
I suffer with the sweet tooth too. I have gained weight despite the DS...I was on steroids for a long time and that did it for me. I don't have any advice to offer you...just wanted to share. I do try to eat more SF type things..SF jello mouse and SF jello with cream. It's a battle I'll tell ya. Nuts help some but oh the chocolate. I'm right there with you.
You can try the peanut butter cookies...see the recipe section and who knows maybe you can come up with something that will really help stop the craving. If you do, be sure to post.
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trinalockary
New Member
Posts: 43
Surgery Type: DS
Surgery Date: Apr 26 2010
Surgeon: Christian Oakley
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Post by trinalockary on Mar 29, 2014 11:42:39 GMT -5
And no I won't be going on drugs for this, basically, for 1 month to see how it affects me, I will have no excess "goodies" candy, popcorn, carby snack foods, booze, but will eat a small amount of GF oats and veggies each day. We will see if the symptoms get better because I have better things to do than plot and plan my next sugar fix.
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 29, 2014 12:04:07 GMT -5
Hi trinalockary, I relate and emphathize very much with what you've written because I have a pretty serious carb addiction, mine is savory starches - as in someone whose idea of the four food groups was bread, pasta, potatoes and rice. Lifelong struggle to learn how to manage it better. will and have written a novel to respond because it's something I lived, fought my whole life. It's not something that ever goes away, and no bariatric surgery fixes carb issues or any emotional/compulsive food issues for that matter. That's the work we have to do and I did it with the help of therapy and learning how to better combine food, replace some, avoid others. There is another post recently here about carbs: weightlosssurgery.proboards.com/thread/8899/question-carbsAnd I will repost some of what I wrote there. Not everyone who is obese has these emotional/compulsive/addiction food issues, but you definitely have a lot of company here. It means those of us who have these problems have a lot of baggage, and you're right, sugar is an addiction, it's what Dr. Atkins focuses on his books, why he zeroes in on all the foods on the shelves that have hidden sugars that people take for granted. As I said on another thread to Scott, I know he would like us to live 'normally', not neurotic; but for people with emotional/compulsive/addiction food issues, we have to do some extra work to redefine 'normal' for us. We don't have the luxury of not 'over-thinking' it. It takes work, dedication to rewriting our old patterns, understanding what foods we like trigger cravings, when we need to avoid certain foods, which ones have a better alternative, and, when we can work it in later; there's wagon falling and climbing back on to learn how manage it long-term and sometimes that includes therapy too. I can be much more flexible because not only am I two years out from my revision, but 12 years out from my first bariatric procedure and have done a lot of this interior work. Now it is more 'second nature' and I can live more in the middle. In answer to your question, I have found my sweet tooth 'heightened' since my DS revision; though honestly, I'm also not quite sure if that's also due to menopause and the hormonal cravings I have to deal with too. I have read others mentioning that they were never big sweet eaters but now they crave them. Goes the other way too, I can't tolerate salt and processed food, it's like I have some insane sensor about it, everything tastes salty, I taste the chemicals! Food addictions are the most difficult I think because we have to live with devil; it's the one addiction that doesn't involve abstinence. I also think sweets addiction is much harder to deal with, I was always grateful that if I was going to be addicted, it was the savory side of things, there are a lot of delicious satisfying alternatives to the things I love - bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, cereal - like Udi's gluten free bread or ezekiel, brown rice vs. white, oatmeal or Kashi for cereal, sweet potatoes instead of white, quinoa; crackers made with these products instead of white flour and gluten - which convert into sugar, which convert into fat and weight. However, we also now live in a culture more hip to sugar and gluten issues, there are TONS of easy recipes and products available now, for sweets too, that make this more manageable. And tell yourself that - you/we never aren't addicts, but we can learn how to live with it and manage it lifelong. It really helped me when I took myself off the hook of blame and failure. Exactly, as you wrote, the buzz word is 'sugar' - and that's the physical addiction part. Eat it and we crave it. Find alternatives to 'scratch the itch' and feel satisfied as a daily lifestyle, it helps the physical cravings...and the longer you do it, the more it become 'habit'. It's not about 'never' so much as not right now and not so much. Think Atkins/diabetic in terms of a lifestyle. I've learned that a carb addiction becomes manageable, like a chronic illness, and the way to 'treat' it with food is we don't 'quit' carbs, but get them from better sources. To deal with my sweet cravings, I do avoid regular sweets as much as possible; you might need to steer clear while you work on this, I waited awhile before I brought 'back' things, until I was stronger. I have used sugar free jello, pudding, popsicles, fudgesicles; I make 'fluff' with cottage cheese, cool whip and sugar free pudding mix; I stick to lower sugar fruits like blueberries, strawberries, apples, pears, cherries, and often eat them with greek yogurt and some almonds. Or, I'll eat greek yogurt, add a scoop of chocolate protein powder, some non-dairy hazlenut creamer and it's like this thick, decadent ice cream. There are great recipes for gluten free mug muffins and cream cheese pancakes on our recipe board here that are fast and easy and you can make them any flavor by changing up flavored extracts, sugar free pudding mixes. If sugar alcohols don't kill your stomach - and you can have treats around and not eat the whole box (also a problem for me), Atkins makes a good line of candy alternatives; most regular drug store candy comes in sugar free options - from twizzlers to reeses. If you can have that around, again, not eat the whole bag, they scratch the itch too. I also stick to the complex starch carbs I mentioned above to reduce sugar cravings, use almond milk or lactaid vs. regular milk (liquid sugar), heavy cream for coffee (lowest in sugar, and a good fat) The mind work part is the hardest - you DO have to dedicate yourself to this, be open to change, substitutes. It can/will become second nature if you are willing to work at it.
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trinalockary
New Member
Posts: 43
Surgery Type: DS
Surgery Date: Apr 26 2010
Surgeon: Christian Oakley
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Post by trinalockary on Mar 29, 2014 13:13:57 GMT -5
Girlrocker you explain it so well! I need to not be feeding my physical addiction while dealing with the mental aspects of it. I will never be able to eat "normal" and I honestly don't think the SAD(Standard American Diet) which is high in carbs, processed foods and ultra addictive additives should be considered normal or desirable. I mean "Normal" for me is binging on sugar until I am sick but that doesn't make it GOOD for me. I am trying to eat Clean and partially paleo as much as I can but with the DS it is an issue of feeling my way along as to what does what to my body. I found myself binging on milk so now it is Almond/coconut mix and the occasional half and half, I still eat cheese and will start low sugar Greek yogurt again (I needed a serious break from dairy to clear my bad habit milk wise...48oz a day average) Not eating wheat, barley or rye and having gas issues leaves me a limited amount of grains (GF oats and quinoa basically) in small amounts before bed and recently increasing my veggie consumption has me fighting constipation but I know I will find the balance. Protein and water first and foremost Fats and fiber second and third Veggies, fruits and the rare sweet come up last in that order
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 29, 2014 14:39:31 GMT -5
It's my house too, I totally get it and there are a lot of us here. I'm a recovering binge person too - hence my comment about not being able to keep certain things around because I eat it until it's gone. Over the years people have asked me, "but isn't peanutbutter ok for a snack" or some other seemingly healthy food, and I'm like yes, but not the way I eat it! It took me a long time to be able to keep it in the house again vs. almond butter. It still happens every once in awhile, but same, years of working on this have helped reign it in. Don't even get me started on the totally batshit crazy things I've done at the height of my food sickness back in the day. Normal is how it is defined for us and our own circumstances. YMMV all the way. I do feel normal now, because to me normal is living life in balance, the middle ground - something very different from a life of extremes. People comment all the time that I'm disciplined(!!!) and I think that's one of the things I'm proudest of. Because I do live, have fun; but I know what pushes my buttons and I pay attention. Everything you say here, spot on; we definitely have to navigate it all with what does and doesn't agree via the DS. And it has changed up for me, too. I did want to say, you have done tremendous, with a 250 lb weight loss, you absolutely can go the distance.Because you understand that this is a lifestyle commitment, not a diet. I realize I have to quit all simple carbs and cut back on fruit...being gluten intolerant I don't eat baked goods and GF baked snacks are not my cup of tea, I don't eat rice because more than 2 bites and I am likely to throw up I do occasionally eat a few bites of steel cut oats but having to buy GF ones makes it costly, I like apples but I am cutting them way down as I worry about it increasing my sugar cravings at this point.I can eat quinoa, non starchy veggies (a few bite of sweet potato is it for me with those) and all meats and fish. I use Nectar protein in coconut/almond milk with coffee as regular milk was something I also abused the hell out of (48 oz a day on average along with cheese nearly gave me anemia) and I am only now starting to add it back into my diet in the form of lite Low sugar Greek yogurt and cheese on my food. I eat slivered almonds and almond butter and can handle all nuts except walnuts and pecans hurt my mouth and peanuts give me frat boy belches. I can handle beans and split peas so I do get a lot of protein but since I am having constipation issues I think I need to increase my healthy fats. Anyway that's me All good above; apples are a good fruit, lower in sugar and high in fiber; one a day ok, not 3 kind of thing...and maybe a few berries tossed into your greek yogurt - and yes, I stick with plain, full fat, even the vanilla has more sugar, besides all the fruity ones. Just as easy to sweeten it up with a little splenda, berries, non-dairy flavored creamer. Beans and split peas can be a bit tricky - certain beans are complex carb, meaning protein, but some are just all carb, I'd say split peas are a starch, so these would be things to keep in mind and in smaller amounts to facillitate weight loss. Best complete protein for us DS people is animal protein. You might find this helpful/interesting, a sticky thread about Complete Protein: weightlosssurgery.proboards.com/thread/8782/complete-proteinYep, up the fats and really, as DS people they don't have to be healthy, rejoice! I cook with oil again, use lots of butter, enjoy my bacon guilt free, cheese is my happy spot, and doesn't bother me at all thankfully, I eat tons of it daily, sometimes a whole wedge of brie with nuts! I use heavy cream to make some delicious sauces to drizzle on my foods, full fat mayo in my tuna and egg salad. And cruise the recipe board, there are some 'treat' recipes that have saved my a$$ from going completely batty. I think you sound really good, and keep posting, talking about it, clearly helps work this stuff out!
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trinalockary
New Member
Posts: 43
Surgery Type: DS
Surgery Date: Apr 26 2010
Surgeon: Christian Oakley
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Post by trinalockary on Mar 29, 2014 15:35:31 GMT -5
By healthy fats I am using the Clean eating and Paleo version, animal fats/butter, coconut oil, olive oil...in fact I got low salt, low nitrate bacon and I bake it to drain off the oil to use later.g Just no soy, cotton seed, canola or other super processed oils.
To quote authoritynutrition.... Processed foods are often high in unhealthy fats.
They usually contain cheap fats, refined seed- and vegetable oils (like soybean oil) that are often hydrogenated… which turns them into trans fats.
Vegetable oils are extremely unhealthy and most people are eating way too much of them already.
These fats contain excessive amounts of Omega-6 fatty acids, which can drive oxidation and inflammation in the body (22, 23).
Several studies show that when people eat more of these oils, they have a significantly increased risk of heart disease, which is the most common cause of death in Western countries today (24, 25, 26).
If the fats are hydrogenated, that makes them even worse. Hydrogenated (trans) fats are among the nastiest, unhealthiest substances you can put into your body (27).
The best way to avoid seed oils and trans fats is to avoid processed foods. Eat real fats like butter, coconut oil and olive oil instead.
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 29, 2014 17:27:07 GMT -5
Ah, agreed re: fats. I'd say 90% of my fat consumption is clean in that regard; I use olive, peanut, sesame oil, and coconut oil is awesome for baking, butter; and overall I avoid processed foods. I was making a fat joke about the DS; your choice is clean/paleo for your overall health; definitely not a DS requirement per se. I applaud the effort! I am liberal with oils and butters, after years of low-fat/no fat eating, steaming everything, 'sauteeing' with water and broth, lite salad dressings. I also enjoy eating red meat - besides that hands down it actually agrees with me the best, always has, even during my RNY days. I still don't like things 'swimming' in fat or heavily breaded, deep fried food, but it's been nice to bring some fun fat back, burgers, meatloaf and meatballs are 3 of my favorite staples. I actually have a hard time with various vegetables that I used to love if the quantities are too big, I have to have them sparingly, no more entree size spinach salads for me, or lots of vegetables in my stir frys.
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Post by PrettyGirlBounce on Mar 30, 2014 10:55:44 GMT -5
Ah, agreed re: fats. I'd say 90% of my fat consumption is clean in that regard; I use olive, peanut, sesame oil, and coconut oil is awesome for baking, butter; and overall I avoid processed foods. I was making a fat joke about the DS; your choice is clean/paleo for your overall health; definitely not a DS requirement per se. I applaud the effort! I am liberal with oils and butters, after years of low-fat/no fat eating, steaming everything, 'sauteeing' with water and broth, lite salad dressings. I also enjoy eating red meat - besides that hands down it actually agrees with me the best, always has, even during my RNY days. I still don't like things 'swimming' in fat or heavily breaded, deep fried food, but it's been nice to bring some fun fat back, burgers, meatloaf and meatballs are 3 of my favorite staples. I actually have a hard time with various vegetables that I used to love if the quantities are too big, I have to have them sparingly, no more entree size spinach salads for me, or lots of vegetables in my stir frys. Sharyl - remember some months back we had a thread candidly discussing the depths of our eating habits prior to DS? I know that I and many others painstakingly described our bingeing behaviors (drive-thru rituals, hiding food/trash, etc.). For me, it was the first time putting it out there. To the original poster, you are not alone and my point in finding that thread is to show you how many of us handle(d) it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2014 11:25:26 GMT -5
Ah, agreed re: fats. I'd say 90% of my fat consumption is clean in that regard; I use olive, peanut, sesame oil, and coconut oil is awesome for baking, butter; and overall I avoid processed foods. I was making a fat joke about the DS; your choice is clean/paleo for your overall health; definitely not a DS requirement per se. I applaud the effort! I am liberal with oils and butters, after years of low-fat/no fat eating, steaming everything, 'sauteeing' with water and broth, lite salad dressings. I also enjoy eating red meat - besides that hands down it actually agrees with me the best, always has, even during my RNY days . I still don't like things 'swimming' in fat or heavily breaded, deep fried food, but it's been nice to bring some fun fat back, burgers, meatloaf and meatballs are 3 of my favorite staples. I actually have a hard time with various vegetables that I used to love if the quantities are too big, I have to have them sparingly, no more entree size spinach salads for me, or lots of vegetables in my stir frys. I know this sounds crazy but that is why I prefer the microwave bacon to most pan cooked or oven cooked bacon. The fat from those is overpowering to me, it tastes almost burnt. Now I do love greasy/juicy pulled pork, chicken and fajita type steak. Regarding breading, it seems to be hard on my stomach. Vegetables, so far I haven't really found any that bother me. I don't eat tons of them but a few of each it is a nice variety to meat only. Broccoli (buttery and I used to hate it that way), snow peas, home made green beans cooked with bacon, asparagus grilled or roasted with olive oil and montreal steak seasoing (pretty much sea salt, cracked pepper and a little garlic salt) are all very tasty veggies to me.
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 30, 2014 11:36:54 GMT -5
Sharyl - remember some months back we had a thread candidly discussing the depths of our eating habits prior to DS? I know that I and many others painstakingly described our bingeing behaviors (drive-thru rituals, hiding food/trash, etc.). For me, it was the first time putting it out there. To the original poster, you are not alone and my point in finding that thread is to show you how many of us handle(d) it. Lisa, YES, I do remember that thread, and now want to search for it and re-instate it. This topic has come up a lot lately and I think it's extremely important. I know there are people 'out there' who don't believe in food addiction, and I've encountered them in the bariatric community too. But emotional/compulsive/addiction with food is real. The DS is not a one size fits all surgery; hefty percentages of malabsorption for protein, fat, and complex carbs, but how those apply to one's own body varies, and the work we have to do to tailor the surgery. For me and many like us, that includes heavy duty food issues that we have to consider, plus whatever metabolic issues we had going into the whole thing. And for you, multiple procedures, massive complications, me one procedure before, big complications. For others, higher start weights, serious co-morbids and so on. Surgery can help level the playing field, but all these issues factor into our success rates, and we must design our own effective eating plans around them in tandem with the surgery tool. Trinalockary, you really do have a lot of company in this regard, and I'm glad you have joined our community and have shared!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2014 11:50:54 GMT -5
Sharyl I think you mentioned something that is very important. Our bodies all vary on how they handle and react to things. I will take that one step further, we all have our our own mind sets, past history, baggage, and mental processing differences as well.
This is why I don't like the one sized all suggestion that everyone needs to stay to a target of 50 carbs a day. I think that target is perfectly valid for some and not as much for others. I respect that unlike me some came in with carb eating issues. That being said, I am very fearful of restricting any food group too much because it is like the yo you dieting we all practiced in that past. I did Atkins and lost a bunch of weight, but when reality set in and I started eating more "normal" again, I packed the weight on hard. My fear with what I consider extreme carb restriction is that bounce back/falling of the train "syndrome".
So again, I respect all opinion on this subject and like most things I really do think carb intake is a YMMV situation. I think this debate/discussion is a good thing that hopefully we can all take something from.
Good luck to all
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Post by PrettyGirlBounce on Mar 30, 2014 12:45:31 GMT -5
Perhaps I am being naive here (and I am never ashamed to admit it if that is the case lol)...but doesn't EVERYONE that became morbidly obese to the point of requiring weight loss surgical intervention have SOME sort of eating disorder/ill behaviors? Aside from a legitimate medical condition i.e. hypothyroidism, etc., of course. I know diabetes is a common co-morbidity too but I know diabetics of all shapes and sizes. Not all of them are obese let alone super morbidly obese to the extent of requiring WLS. Scott, out of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking here, what was your path to morbid obesity? I know you had diabetes and this was the main reason for having surgery (the weight loss being a 'bonus' as you have discussed previously) but certainly there must be some sort of underlying issues and/or abnormal food behaviors that resulted in you weighing over 300 lbs and requiring WLS. Otherwise, couldn't you have just followed your golden "everything in moderation" rules and lost it on your own? Isn't allowing oneself to become morbidly obese or worse a behavioral/eating 'disorder' in and of itself, regardless of whether one has an accompanying condition such as diabetes? I feel the metabolic reset induced by the DS needs to be accompanied by behavioral modifications in order to come full circle and result in a successful surgery. And thus, if behaviors need to be modified, doesn't that prove some sort of eating/ behavioral disorders existed in the first place which required changing? Or not...just wondering over here. These posts got my brain churnin'...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2014 12:57:29 GMT -5
Perhaps I am being naive here (and I am never ashamed to admit it if that is the case lol)...but doesn't EVERYONE that became morbidly obese to the point of requiring weight loss surgical intervention have SOME sort of eating disorder/ill behaviors? Aside from a legitimate medical condition i.e. hypothyroidism, etc., of course. I know diabetes is a common co-morbidity too but I know diabetics of all shapes and sizes. Not all of them are obese let alone super morbidly obese to the extent of requiring WLS. Scott, out of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking here, what was your path to morbid obesity? I know you had diabetes and this was the main reason for having surgery (the weight loss being a 'bonus' as you have discussed previously) but certainly there must be some sort of underlying issues and/or abnormal food behaviors that resulted in you weighing over 300 lbs and requiring WLS. Otherwise, couldn't you have just followed your golden "everything in moderation" rules and lost it on your own? Isn't allowing oneself to become morbidly obese or worse a behavioral/eating 'disorder' in and of itself, regardless of whether one has an accompanying condition such as diabetes? I feel the metabolic reset induced by the DS needs to be accompanied by behavioral modifications in order to come full circle and result in a successful surgery. And thus, if behaviors need to be modified, doesn't that prove some sort of eating/ behavioral disorders existed in the first place which required changing? Or not...just wondering over here. These posts got my brain churnin'... I gained wait over the years through decreased physical activity while not cutting down caloric intake. I don't consider that an eating disorder and my weight gain wasn't triggered by any emotional issues. It is simple math, when you burn less calories than you ingest you are going to gain weight. I didn't wake up one day and find out I was 350. Once the diabetes came on I became more and more insulin resistant (after a few years) and 290-300 slowly creeped to 350 (basically where I was for the last 4-5 years). That and the stress/time consumption/energy zap from Cameron's illness the last 3.5 years, and chronic pain and illness, lead to less activity and didn't help anything. Again, we are all different but my personal story is that of many, many, many men. Many of us were athletes who expended tremedous amount of calories in our younger days through working out and playing sports. As work and family life kicked in with less and less time/desire to work out, fatass sets in. So yes, absolutely there is a behavioral element to weight gain. People with issues including slow metabolisms, simply have to work harder than others just to be modestly overweight. That sucks but it is reality and yes not working out as much and eating great is a behavioral choice. BTW, while I am at and pissing people off. None of us got to 350 or whatever weight we were at by eating healthy and working out. Metabolism plays a big role, but if we were expending more calories than we were eating we would't have gotten this way. That doesn't mean we all had some kind of disorder other than not having the energy to work extra hard to stay at a relatively normal weight. This being said, I was a fat kid who had to work his ass off in junior high and high school to become an athletic specimen. Genetics know doubt played a key role (as well as environment and my behavior) as my Mom was a big lady and so are most of her brothers and sisters. As far as behavioral modification, again I think we all have different histories. The biggest modification post DS, IMO, is the malabsorbtion and I really do believe that is a good 85% of the weigh loss (long term) and that our behavioral eating patterns are going to have impact , but not like the switch part. Again, that doesn't mean we can eat like idiots...so again, life is about balance. Nobody said that balance was easy.
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Post by PrettyGirlBounce on Mar 30, 2014 13:08:03 GMT -5
Ahh. Got it. And you're right...it's never easy! Our DS certainly helps us in that regard, thank goodness! Thanks for your response.
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Post by goodkel on Mar 30, 2014 13:41:30 GMT -5
Perhaps I am being naive here (and I am never ashamed to admit it if that is the case lol)...but doesn't EVERYONE that became morbidly obese to the point of requiring weight loss surgical intervention have SOME sort of eating disorder/ill behaviors? Aside from a legitimate medical condition i.e. hypothyroidism, etc., of course. I know diabetes is a common co-morbidity too but I know diabetics of all shapes and sizes. Not all of them are obese let alone super morbidly obese to the extent of requiring WLS. Scott, out of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking here, what was your path to morbid obesity? I know you had diabetes and this was the main reason for having surgery (the weight loss being a 'bonus' as you have discussed previously) but certainly there must be some sort of underlying issues and/or abnormal food behaviors that resulted in you weighing over 300 lbs and requiring WLS. Otherwise, couldn't you have just followed your golden "everything in moderation" rules and lost it on your own? Isn't allowing oneself to become morbidly obese or worse a behavioral/eating 'disorder' in and of itself, regardless of whether one has an accompanying condition such as diabetes? I feel the metabolic reset induced by the DS needs to be accompanied by behavioral modifications in order to come full circle and result in a successful surgery. And thus, if behaviors need to be modified, doesn't that prove some sort of eating/ behavioral disorders existed in the first place which required changing? Or not...just wondering over here. These posts got my brain churnin'... Many people arrive at morbid obesity by way of medical conditions. I was never in my life obese, let alone morbidly obese until I underwent a year and a half of treatments for metastatic thyroid cancer starting in 2001. With my thyroid out, off thyroid meds so they wouldn't interfere with treatment, and being on steroids the whole time I gained over a hundred pounds during that time. I was in a state of constantly, frantically dieting to get it off. Each diet that proved unsuccessful ended up with a regain that brought along friends. My final attempt I was on Nutrisystem for 9 months. Lost 30 pounds in the first three months and not one pound after that. Gained 40 back when I stopped it while still living on salads and small portions. That's when I began researching bariatric surgery. I know formerly normal weight people who have dieted themselves to obesity trying to rid themselves of weight gained during successive pregnancies, a broken knee, a major life stress like divorce. Once that metabolic switch has been flipped (at around 25 pounds overweight), only 5% of people who reduce their weight through diet and exercise manage to keep it off for more than five years. Everyone else gains it back and then some. For some people it is genetic. There are examples of this all over the place. One sibling eating less than all the others and still gaining weight. There are plenty of people who arrive at morbid obesity because of food issues, but there are also plenty of people who dieted their way there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2014 15:50:30 GMT -5
Ahh. Got it. And you're right...it's never easy! Our DS certainly helps us in that regard, thank goodness! Thanks for your response.
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Post by muffinsmom on Mar 30, 2014 19:49:24 GMT -5
Trina, just so you know... After 3.5 years out, I think about sugar every day. Every day. I flirt with the bakery section at the grocery store, while driving I reminisce about the places I used to go to get my "fix" (the special pie here, the churros there, the bundt cake store just over there, whatever). I gaze longingly at the candy bars at the checkout line (there's a reason they're there). I drool at the TV ads for all the various goodies. And on and on. But all this is mostly just a head game, I don't need to give in these days. Not saying I'm perfect, and every time I fall off that particular wagon it takes several days of white-knuckling to get back on track. It's a lifelong battle. It waxes and wanes, and for a while right after surgery it was gone completely, but these days never wholly out of my thoughts.
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 30, 2014 22:07:57 GMT -5
Trina, just so you know... After 3.5 years out, I think about sugar every day. Every day. I flirt with the bakery section at the grocery store, while driving I reminisce about the places I used to go to get my "fix" (the special pie here, the churros there, the bundt cake store just over there, whatever). I gaze longingly at the candy bars at the checkout line (there's a reason they're there). I drool at the TV ads for all the various goodies. And on and on. But all this is mostly just a head game, I don't need to give in these days. Not saying I'm perfect, and every time I fall off that particular wagon it takes several days of white-knuckling to get back on track. It's a lifelong battle. It waxes and wanes, and for a while right after surgery it was gone completely, but these days never wholly out of my thoughts. Thanks for sharing this, as what you've described here actually responds to the subject of this thread - sugar addiction. Everything you are talking about here are things I can relate to, swapping out the sweets for breads/pastas/pizza/potatoes particularly. It has been the battle of my life and it never goes away, but over time, and with a lot of diligent work, which includes surgery that gives me a heavy lifting, new food options that help neutralize, stabilize the cravings and therapy, it's gotten manageable. There is nothing quite like the shame involved when it comes to food addiction because we have to deal with this exact mentality - "None of us got to 350 or whatever weight we were at by eating healthy and working out. Metabolism plays a big role, but if we were expending more calories than we were eating we would't have gotten this way. That doesn't mean we all had some kind of disorder other than not having the energy to work extra hard to stay at a relatively normal weight" Scott, again, as I mentioned to you on another thread, we need to be respectful of people's issues with regard to their obesity and what got them there, to surgery and whatever struggles they endure getting the weight off, dealing with the the issues that contributed to their obesity. They may not be yours. We as a morbidly obese community are certainly not one size fits all. Just from the responses here that's clear - you're a former athlete, someone else was sick, some of us have major emotional/addiction food issues and there are many more. These issues are an extension of our signatures that clarify the picture about our morbidly obese selves. I'm not seeing where this thread is a 'debate'. The poster is not asking an opinion about sugar addiction, about what defines good/bad carbs, how many, the 50g guideline that is helpful to many who are extremely uneducated and have no clue how to really eat, or are so carb addicted, and need some starting point to work with, just like Vitalady starter paks. I see questions here about sugar addiction and a very honest inner look by someone trying to get to the finish line after four years. Have you ever fantasized about food? Gorged, eaten things until they are gone? Thrown food in the garbage in a futile attempt to stop the madness that holds you in a vise, and then fished it out and ate it anyway? Have you dealt with a weight stall? A stubborn, metabolically challenged body? A regain? I wouldn't wish this on anyone. And just because these happen to be my issues, doesn't mean I don't empathize with everyone in my bariatric family, however they got here. But if I can't offer any constructive advice because it's out of my realm of knowledge or experience, I usually don't. I do enjoy reading and learning, and seeing people who come from different perspectives then I do and sometimes it's just enough to say, 'hang in there.'
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Post by tafica on Mar 30, 2014 23:54:54 GMT -5
I'm so glad to read this thread. I am in the early stages of my journey into the DS but I also suffer from sugar addiction. My particular vice is soda, Coke in particular. Not diet but full sugar Coke. It's so bad that I can't drink anything carbonated. No sparkling water, no sugar free, nothing. I'm an all or nothing kind of addict. My family jokes that I'm a Coke fiend, but it's true. I've never been a smoker or a drinker but I can tell you how many days it's been since I've had a Coke, 57 if you're wondering. I also struggle with other sugars as well, like chocolate, cupcakes, skittles, etc.. And I know that I have certain triggers, like my period, stress, the usual stuff. In past years I have started using running as a substitute. Until recently when I started having major pain in my feet, that the Dr says will only get better if I loose weight. Hence part of the reason that I am turning to the DS, I need another tool to help me achieve my weight loss goals. I am starting to get more confident that I will be able to maintain my weight loss but I do still worry about my sugar addiction, but I am glad I found the support of this group.
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trinalockary
New Member
Posts: 43
Surgery Type: DS
Surgery Date: Apr 26 2010
Surgeon: Christian Oakley
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Post by trinalockary on Mar 31, 2014 3:49:57 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for your in put and letting me realize I am not alone,Rockergirl I don't throw things in the trash, I toss them out the car window, flush them down the toilet or put them down the disposal... I don't trust myself. Weirdest thing is once I gave up gluten, baked goods all baked goods because I hate GF baked stuff I never went back. My hatred for earaches and sore throats is so huge I am just not tempted (my gluten symptoms are broad but the most noticeable is swelling in my lymph nodes) but the fear of gas or even gaining weight isn't enough to stop me from eating sugar so I have to do it on determination and sheer stubbornness I guess
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Post by Girlrocker on Mar 31, 2014 9:35:45 GMT -5
I'm so glad to read this thread. I am in the early stages of my journey into the DS but I also suffer from sugar addiction. My particular vice is soda, Coke in particular. Not diet but full sugar Coke. It's so bad that I can't drink anything carbonated. No sparkling water, no sugar free, nothing. I'm an all or nothing kind of addict. My family jokes that I'm a Coke fiend, but it's true. I've never been a smoker or a drinker but I can tell you how many days it's been since I've had a Coke, 57 if you're wondering. I also struggle with other sugars as well, like chocolate, cupcakes, skittles, etc.. And I know that I have certain triggers, like my period, stress, the usual stuff. In past years I have started using running as a substitute. Until recently when I started having major pain in my feet, that the Dr says will only get better if I loose weight. Hence part of the reason that I am turning to the DS, I need another tool to help me achieve my weight loss goals. I am starting to get more confident that I will be able to maintain my weight loss but I do still worry about my sugar addiction, but I am glad I found the support of this group. I'm pretty sure 'all or nothing' is indeed our addict life. It sucks. Over the years while slogging my way through this - and dumping from my RNY wasn't enough to stop me either from consuming the starchy carbs I loved that converted into sugar, hence the dumping, not just about sweets - I've had to dig my heels in to find alternatives. There are some things there's just no replacement for, when I want it, I want it, not a substitute. So I'm lucky that for instance, I do well with sugar free/gluten free baked products, I love the cream cheese pancake recipe and mug muffin which I actually triple and make in a soup mug so it's like a mini quick bread loaf (pumpkin, chocolate, lemon poppyseed my favorites for both). I also got a jump start on switch to diet coke thanks to diet number 754, when I did Optifast in the 80s. I was so desperate for anything that wasn't a protein drink that I caved and tried diet coke. Hated it at first, but go used to it. I'm paying dearly for the Winchell's' donuts I had yesterday morning on top of way too much coffee (killlllls me if I have more than my 1-2 cups). Trinalockary, *sighs* I've done the throwing out the window, down the toilet too, and more. Its a daily struggle, some days for me are harder than others; now, 12 years later, I have a lot of really mostly great days. The foods that still make me go into a tizzy are breads and pizza. Yes, for some foods its just about abstinence, steering clear for now, and doing it one day at a time.
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trinalockary
New Member
Posts: 43
Surgery Type: DS
Surgery Date: Apr 26 2010
Surgeon: Christian Oakley
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Post by trinalockary on Apr 1, 2014 18:34:20 GMT -5
Today was a horrible day, I will admit that I used my Season Affective Disorder, the non stop pouring rain, money and car issues and overall stress as a justification for binging, 2 pecan but rolls and a medium sized bag of Pirates Booty. The thing is I AM horribly depressed, it IS raining and cold and dreary and the money I was promised over a month ago is even later than we thought and I am convinced it just won't happen despite knowing it will. But THOSE ARE JUST EXCUSES...and excuses are boring. (To quote Unfuck your Habitat) I didn't NEED that food, because of my altered anatomy I need healthy higher fat and very high protein foods not candy bars, not corn puffs, not carbs! The worse part is I know better, I know not just that it will actually make things worse but WHY it will and still I did it. Above and beyond the self loathing for giving in there is the sugar-insulin spike/crash, the increase in serotonin followed by mass cravings for more. I even know why I wanted the food on a biological level and that it won't help but still I am miserable, physically my guts hate me, mentally I hate my weakness and emotionally I am still a depressed SAD basket case waiting for the sun to come out. The only thing I can say on my behalf is on that same trip to the store with my last $11 I bought that crap but also a large avocado, a brick of cream cheese, a Qt of full fat plain Greek yogurt and a gallon of whole milk. I have a small pulled beef roast with peppers in the crock pot so I added a scoop of yogurt and half a bar of cream cheese and when my guts stop crying out in pain from the pirate attack I will eat some I wish this was a joke, I also wish I had started the month better but no such luck and I need to remind myself that every minute of every day is a chance to start over...today isn't completely ruined unless I give up
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Post by bboop on Apr 1, 2014 22:55:15 GMT -5
Lighten up on yourself. You did it it's over and start anew tomorrow. Stop beating yourself up. You now know what to do so just do it! Easy on the self loathing...that's not going to help you or anyone.
I'm a sugar potato addict myself...I struggle every single day. Some days I do good, others not so good. I try like crazy not to beat up on myself. It's not easy but I really do try.
Hugs.
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Post by Girlrocker on Apr 2, 2014 12:18:53 GMT -5
I wish this was a joke, I also wish I had started the month better but no such luck and I need to remind myself that every minute of every day is a chance to start over...today isn't completely ruined unless I give up Awwww! To all of the above. But this - right here - is where you need to focus. I have been to this place, many many times, any of us who struggle with this addiction have. I find so much of the AA etc ethos to be true and really helpful. It really is one day at a time, no day is completely ruined. This is a sickness, and again, it's a sickness that doesn't involve total abstinence, food addictions mean we have to live/deal with the devil. So we heap that much more shame and loathing on ourselves, thinking we are to blame, flawed. It was the most liberating thing for me to finally stop hating myself for being a food junkie, or, think I could make it go away. It's who we are but it is possible to live a life where we have the reins of control, not the other way around. It takes time, we don't get this way overnight, but do anything consistently over a length of time and the changes root themselves, become more second nature. It doesn't disappear, and some days are harder than others, sometimes your buttons get pushed, for big reasons like you mentioned, or no damn reason at all- I have digressed into eating marathons because I started with the bagels in the morning someone brought in at work, or whatever. Dust off, make the best choices the rest of the day and keep moving. And vent here anytime, the fact that you are putting it out here, instead of being closeted, living in secret shame, is a big step. Keep it up! And I'm sorry for the added stress, nothing pushes buttons more than money I think
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Post by maggiesara on Apr 25, 2014 0:08:29 GMT -5
FWIW, I have found that I have MUCH more of a sweet tooth post-surgery than I ever did previously. I used to be vain about the fact that I could keep sweets in the house -- lots of them, ice cream, chocolate -- and would almost never binge on them (whereas leave one piece of freezer-burned, crappy, Lean Cuisine lasagna in the fridge, and it would be gone in a New York minute). But that's not the case anymore. I think the truth is that I need to get rid of the sweets, for the moment.
The key to being able to do this, of course, is "for the moment."
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kingy
Full Member
Posts: 213
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Post by kingy on Aug 2, 2014 22:38:36 GMT -5
I feel for you. Ironically I NEVER had a sweet tooth before my DS (though I'd walk over hot coals for a potato salad), now I lean towards sweeter things rather than savoury. I try to incorporate it with my protein intake... Moroccan chicken (which has honey in it), banana and lamb curry etc. I wish I had an answer for you but maybe it helps knowing you're not alone.
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